Pig & Whistle Tales - A World of Warcraft Podcast

First Impressions of The War Within and Farewell to Dragonflight Expansion

• Gabriel • Season 4 • Episode 45

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Curious about the latest World of Warcraft expansion, The War Within? Join us at the Pig and Whistle Inn in Stormwind as we uncover our first impressions and community reactions to this fresh chapter in Azeroth. The expansion's launch has been impressively smooth, and we delve into the streamlined leveling experience from 70 to max level, while highlighting the compelling new zones like Hallowfall, which is already winning hearts. We also touch upon the enhanced storytelling and cinematics, particularly the impactful inclusion of players' characters in cut scenes, adding a deeply personal touch to the narrative.

Ever wondered how MMORPG developers manage to keep quests and dungeons fresh and exciting? This episode unpacks the delicate balance between innovation and practicality in World of Warcraft. We'll discuss how developers cleverly reuse and modify game assets like cathedrals and nerubian zones to create engaging, new content without straining resources. By understanding the story context behind repetitive tasks, players can find a deeper appreciation for these familiar challenges. We champion a 'work smarter, not harder' philosophy that brings out the best in game design.

As we bid a fond farewell to the Dragonflight expansion, we reflect on its highs and lows. From the confusion surrounding the Radiant Echoes event to the notable PvP and raiding improvements, we break down what made Dragonflight stand out. We also critique the simplified Mythic Plus affixes and suggest more frequent balance patches could have enhanced the experience further. Wrapping up, we rate Dragonflight a solid seven or eight out of ten and share our excitement for what The War Within holds, reminding our listeners that this expansion is just the first part of a thrilling three-part story arc. Stay connected with us on our social channels for more updates and adventures!

Hope you all enjoy and hope you relate to any of these stories. And I will speak to you all in the next episode!

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Speaker 1:

Music do. Hello and welcome to the Pig and Whistle Tales from Azeroth. As always here at the Pig and Whistle Inn in Stormwind, I go for a variety of subjects. With regards to World of Warcraft, today is the day. Well, yesterday was technically the day, but today is the day when everyone gets to experience a full day of the War Within and I want to share with you my thoughts and opinions on the first few hours I got to spend on it, as well as the essentially stuff that's been going on on the forums everyone complaining, everyone liking stuff and, honestly, not bad start to an expansion uh, very smooth, very well thought out and, yeah, just honestly, one of the better expansion releases. Um, for an early access. Anyway, we still have yet to experience the full release to the entire world for those who do not have the early access anyway, we still have yet to experience the full release to the entire world for those who do not have the early access, but you know I digress, it has still been good nonetheless. In a previous episode I did say that I didn't have early access, but I know people who did so. I have been watching them and I've been writing down my thoughts on the um, sort of expansion. As I'm watching them play, I'm going through in my head if the story's any good, if the gameplay is any good. The gameplay is very tough to judge at the moment because obviously, um, my friend didn't even get to level 71, so I don't have a lot that I can go off of. I'm not gonna lie, but from what I have seen, I can give you that information at the very least.

Speaker 1:

As always, we have the weekly news um, no world bosses, no uh bonus event. It is comp stomp and no mythic affixes. This is because obviously it is a launch week. We are leaving dragonflight. There are no mythic affixes. Mythics are still in the game but people are not going to be doing them and I'm pretty sure there aren't any because it is the release week. So we are essentially within a new expansion and they haven't released the mythic uh affixes for that yet. So we have no bonus event, which is a bit weird. But you, your world bosses are not active for a week or two.

Speaker 1:

I believe the first one is going to be a giant automaton, I believe, um, and obviously I will let you know when he is up. But comp stomp is your brawl for the week and essentially this is you against some AIs. The AIs are very easy, hence why it's called comp stomp. You are just going to absolutely demolish them, get some nice honor, test out a couple of bits and pieces for your character, very simple.

Speaker 1:

Now, from what I've seen, I'm not going to give my opinions just yet. From what I have seen, the leveling it's going to take about depends on how fast you are. But for the casual player, if you're going through the quests, reading them and you know killing stuff at a decently efficient rate, you're looking at several hours. Okay, now, these several hours are going to be very, very simple, okay, um, it's not going to be very stress inducing. You're going to go through the storyline, you're going to take it at a very nice pace and, yeah, it will take about several hours to get you to max level from your level 70.

Speaker 1:

If you are looking to speed run this I believe someone did it in about one to two hours I think potentially you can really go crazy with this. If you have, like, all of the add-ons and stuff that automatically hand in quests and pick them up and you know all of that stuff, then you can go really crazy with it. This isn't honestly how I'm going to do it really crazy with it. This isn't honestly how I'm gonna do it. This is if you want to, you can. But you can do it in about that time if you really push yourself, get all the bells and whistles. If you don't have the bells and whistles like the add-ons that automatically, automatically turn in quests etc then you're looking at about three hours. You know if you're really powering through it. It shouldn't take you that long.

Speaker 1:

In my honest opinion, retail leveling is very simple, very straightforward, and it wants to get across a story rather than essentially the leveling experience, because retail is very much about the end game content rather than the classic journey, which was zero to 60. And that's what it kind of focused on and I think that this is fine. I think that the story so far, from what I've seen, it's developing quite well. It's going to develop quite well over the course of the three expansions the war within midnight and then the final Titan. I think that it's going to be really good and hopefully it can carry on from there.

Speaker 1:

Obviously, there are loads of cinematics that have been posted. I'm not going to give you any spoilers for any of them, but I have gone through them and they are very good. I like to see the progression of characters in cinematics. I especially like ones that have my character in them, and there are several which are, you know, having your character in these cut scenes. So if you want to wear a wacky transmog for it, please do so. You will be in some of these.

Speaker 1:

As for the initial faults, the start of the expansion, I think that Kazalgar is it, kazalgar, yeah is going to be a very nice zone. I think that the Ring in Deeps is going to be the least favourite zone. I think Hallowfall is the best zone. I haven't even seen it, but I'm literally watching people play it and I love the zone. I love the whole aesthetic of it. I love the whole look and feel of it. I think this is going to be the favorite zone for most people, and then Azca I would say it's going to be the second most favorite. I think that there's something weird about it and there's something kind of I don't know beautiful in a sense of how they've made it. But these zones are all amazing. I think Ringing Deeps is just going to be a bit bland, in my honest opinion, and I think that people will get bored of it relatively quickly, but the leveling obviously is very good, like I said before.

Speaker 1:

So what do other people think about this? So I hopped onto the forums and I obviously checked and, to my surprise, a lot of people are actually enjoying it. But obviously there's some people who cry. So these people that are crying, they need to get over themselves. They're not crying because it's bad or anything like that. They're crying because of stupid stuff. Okay, stupid stuff. That could be explained very simply. So I am a little disappointed. What about the leveling? The way that the story's done, the way that the story's progressing, the way that your characters play, you know what? What could they be disappointed about with this early access is that it it's a copy pasta from previous expansion zones. Maybe move an asset or two went very smooth through the early access, but I am really disappointed about the same blizzard stuff by adding old assets, making a few quests like 10 kill of this and collect five of that.

Speaker 1:

What do you think? Firstly, there is only a finite amount of quests that you can add to an mmo, because you can't go around killing a giant monster that's in the sky every single quest, because otherwise people will start to be like oh well, you're just doing this because it's the same question is boring. You have a finite amount of quests. It all will relate to something. If you actually read the quest and read about the story and why you're collecting these, you will understand it. Now, back in classic World of Warcraft, these quests happened all the time. It was always go and collect 20 crystals or in Un'Goro, and yet at the very same time you have level 6's in Goldshire Getting a quest to go and collect six candles. What's the difference there? Hey, can you please tell me what the difference is? This is a like first level zone up to nearly a max level zone, and yet they have the same type of quest. No one's complaining there, are they because you only have a finite amount of quests? This is a ridiculous point. It cannot be argued.

Speaker 1:

Secondly, the quests that do this, that send you to go kill stuff, to send you to go pick up stuff. There is a reason. That reasoning is in the quest text. So I have to go and pick up these crystals in Un'Goro Crater so that they can be studied as to why they are giving the lashes. Um, like power. You know more life and stuff like that. I'm not sure if that's the actual thing for the ungaro quest, by the way, I'm just guessing, but this one will be. You have to go and collect oil or something just to make a robot work. You, you know it's absolutely ridiculous. You can make any sort of reasoning for it and it will still be for the quest. It will still make sense for the quest. So the reasoning here is ridiculous for, like, go and kill and go and collect things and stuff like that.

Speaker 1:

As for the assets, I would argue that, yes, some of them are kind of copy and pasted, but how else are you going to do it? So you make a church. Okay, you take stormwind church, yeah, the cathedral. If you wanted to make another cathedral somewhere, how would you do it? You would take stormwind's cathedral and you would model it off of that. Okay, you'd, maybe. So the cathedral for stormwind is giant cathedralized unit, all know, slap bang in the middle and then either side, like in the corners, you have like these four different pillars that are sticking out and stuff like that. How are you going to change this? Okay, maybe you don't have four pillars, you have two pillars at the front and that's it. You have one at the back and you know it sort of leads on to a graveyard or something. You reduce the height of it and just make it into a small sort of church instead of a cathedral.

Speaker 1:

You know you model it around that and, yes, some assets are going to be taken from things because, instead of building it from the ground up, blizzard already has 20 years worth of content that has been added to the game that they can copy and paste and then like remodel off of that. This is what allows them to bring out patches quicker, if that makes sense, because it's just like, okay, copy this cathedral in there and just remodel it a bit. You know that's completely fine. I completely understand doing that. That's a work smarter, not harder, sort of thing. So, yes, there's going to be assets that are copied, but there's also a shit ton of assets that aren't copied from like anywhere.

Speaker 1:

So take the nerubian zone, for example. I'm spitballing here because I've never seen the nerubian zone yet, like from my perspective. I've not seen someone level in it, I've not seen myself or anyone else level in it, so I am spitballing. I would get, I would take that, or I would guess that they took some of the assets from the nerubian dungeons back in northrend and wrath of the lich king and said, okay, I like this design of the housing or something, let's put that in, but tweak it a little so it's like nests instead or they like sort of houses that they live in, represents a spider's web on the map. You know that kind of thing because the nerubians haven't had a lot of architecture, haven't had a lot of. They've had law behind them, but not like in world of warcraft law behind them. They've had warcraft law like before world of warcraft, but never in world of warcraft.

Speaker 1:

Very, very few uh bits and pieces are on them essentially, but ascent. But yeah, like they're obviously going to copy some assets from the game. It just makes sense. But they expand on them. They don't just copy and paste. You don't just copy and paste storming cathedral somewhere, do you? Now, obviously there are other cathedrals in the game and these cathedrals might be you know, one of them might look the exact same as storming cathedral, just a different uh slab of paint on it. You know, it might be red instead of like yellow. You know it's going to happen. I think the closest one that you can get to is sort of Tears Hand, I think Something along them lines. But it's going to happen. It just makes sense to copy and paste and then mold the copy of it into something else rather than the start from the ground up, because you already have something that's a fully functional building. You just mold it into something else. You delete certain assets of it and you, you know, put in some more and then just stick it together. Obviously I'm gonna be great at making these sort of things, you know, uh, because I just think it works with super glue you just stick it in on paint or something and it will fix together.

Speaker 1:

But honestly, I don't get how people go through this thought process. The same quests have been added every single year. The same quests have been added in the same expansion since Classic Collect this, kill that and go and search this, escort this person. Ever since classic there have been the same quests, exact same quests. You cannot make this argument unless you are willing to say that classic has the same problem, and people will not say that because classic is perfect in those people's eyes. So I don't know, pull me crazy, but I don't think this guy's got a point. That's it.

Speaker 1:

The next one dungeons are really, really bad in the war within or is this a bug? I did my first dungeon, the rookery. What a joke. At level 71, mobs died in three to four seconds. At some point we gathered the whole room and everything died in 6-7 seconds. The bosses Like in 10-15 seconds. This must be a bug. There is no other explanation. The same goes for Open World 2. Way too low tuned. Everything dies with 2-3 hits. I'm just shocked at how bad the experience is Zero sense of danger, brain dead button smash and keep forward. Also, my gear isn't crazy, just normal stuff, not a raider.

Speaker 1:

Okay, yes, this is a bit unfortunate, I will say that. But the gear that you are getting from questing in, uh, the very first zone of the new expansion is 402 item level. Yes, I think it's something like that. Well, 415, 400 to 420, I'm gonna say it's somewhere around that range. Me, as a pvp geared geared player, have outdoor world item level of about 500. Okay, that's outdoor item level. Those who did heroic raiding or heroic or mythic raiding will have about 530 item level. Okay, 520 to 530, anywhere along there. Um, we outgear these first couple zones by a ludicrous amount. Those who did very casually play the game in Dragonflight will outgear this first zone by about 50 item levels, and that's if you geared very, very casually in dragonflight in the last season. So, yes, everything will die. The first couple bosses will die super quickly. The first couple dungeons will be blitzed through very, very quickly.

Speaker 1:

It's unfortunate, but we are not getting a stat squish until I think the 0.2 patch is what was said. Um, so they can't inflate it too much at the start of the expansion. They have to inflate it about 50 of the way through the zones. So when you get to hollow fall is when you'll start maybe switching out some pieces of gear. It's like, oh, this has actually got better stats for me. Okay, I'll switch that out. This is the reason why it isn't a bug. We are just simply overtuned at the first start or at the start of these uh zones.

Speaker 1:

It's nothing crazy, it's gonna be something different. So, like when you get to heroics or mythics, you will not be outgearing this. Obviously, you'll be at the right gear and you will realize that people aren't going to be zooming through these mythics. There will be wipes and stuff because of gear potentially, but it's mainly because of people, let's face it. So if you are blitzing through dungeons. Do not say it's a bug. It is simply gear. Okay, look at your gear, look at everyone else's gear in the party. You will realize that people are stupidly overgeared. This guy says his gear isn't crazy, just normal stuff. Normal stuff will be about four, seven, six item level okay, somewhere around there. So he will be, at the very minimum, about 30 to 40 item levels higher than what the gear he would be getting from the quests is currently. Now that's you know. To put it into perspective, if you have four other people in that group who play well, very actively, they're going to have higher item level gear okay, so they're going to blitz through it as well. It's just one of them things, not a bug. You have to understand this, okay.

Speaker 1:

Next one early access for a triple a game is unacceptable. I literally don't understand why not have more days of early access. Three days of early access costs 40 euros. I expected to have that at least 14 days of access and now I see three days and the MM and Arena will not be available. What a scandal. Firstly, when early access was announced, they said that Arenas and Mythic Plus will not be available until a couple of weeks. They they actually said this a few months ago that mythic plus, and like arenas, will very much be releasing two weeks after the actual release date of the war within. So you know, that's just not you being informed. Secondly, you didn't pay 40 euros extra just to get three days early access. Ok, what you got with that extra 40 days is 30 days game time, which itself costs, I think, about 10 pounds, something like that 10. And then you also have other bits and pieces, so mounts, traders, tendies, you have transmogs, stuff like that, bits and bobs.

Speaker 1:

If you simply do not like it, you didn't have to buy it. I didn't buy it because I didn't feel like the price warranted uh, paying an extra 30 or 30 to 40 pounds. I looked at it like tonight and thinking maybe I should get it. And then I was like, oh, okay, it's the epic edition, I need not the heroic. So instead of paying 15 pounds extra, which would have been the heroic, I was like maybe I do that I would have paid the epic edition, which is 35 pound extra. And I'm just like, yeah, no, there's no chance for that. I want it for the three days extra day like game time. I am not paying that much for three extra days when all I can do is level all right, there is no way I'm doing that, but simply, if you do not like it, do not buy it.

Speaker 1:

It was announced. Let me see if I can get the announcement date right here quick. It was announced on the. I'm trying to find it. Well, it was essentially on the official blizzard forum post, so I don't really know what this guy is worried about. Um, yeah, look, beta access and early access date subject to change. Early access duration is three days. Limited time only play to play time subject to possible outages and time zone differences.

Speaker 1:

Then end game features, including mythics, dungeons and weekly quests, not available during early access. It literally states it there. Okay, it is not available during early access. It's crazy that people don't read up on this stuff because you are paying for it. Yeah, you are paying for the game, and with each individual bundle you've got a certain amount of things.

Speaker 1:

So the base edition here we go. I've got it here. You get the world of warcraft, obviously, uh, war with him. You get dragon flight with it as well. You get a character boost and 500 traders, 10 ds. That's completely fine for the heroic. You get all of that, plus an extra 250 tendies or tenders. You get a mount and a transmog set On top of that. For the epic edition, you get beta access for the war with him. You get three days early access. You get 30 days game time, you get a pet, you get a toy and you get a hearthstone effect. You clearly, it clearly states everything that you get here and then at the bottom, it clearly states what or how long you have, what you get it for and stuff like that. Okay, it is really nothing too bad. Um, this person just simply didn't read on what like they were getting, and that's on them. That's on no one else but them.

Speaker 1:

Also, I do want to add I think was I close with my uh estimate? I gave an estimate on when they would release the war within. I'm pretty sure I said august. There's no way I said july, right, I, I feel like I said august. I feel like I said august. So I, within, I'm pretty sure I said august. There's no way I said july, right, I? I feel like I said august. I feel like I said august. So I think I'm pretty close. I'm gonna say that I was close, you know. I'm gonna say that I was spot on and perfect with my prediction. Nothing else to it.

Speaker 1:

Now, this one is going to be a bit different. Actually, you know what I'm going to start with this one? Because I don't get why people don't understand this. No XP in Radiant Echoes. All of a sudden, xp for the event just stopped. Is it just me? Whole zone I am in is livid. This was you know last night.

Speaker 1:

Now, why do you think this? Is it a bug? Is it the game playing up? Is it just stupidity on Blizzard's part? No, it's because the pre-patch event has technically ended. The expansion is out, so there's no pre-patch. So pre-patch shouldn't be giving XP now, because it is technically done. Ok, you can still get the transmogs and the currency and stuff for it. But it is technically done. Okay, you can still get the transmogs and the currency and stuff for it, but it is done. Pre-patch shouldn't be out. I think they keep it out for the next few days just so people have something to do, maybe gear some alts. But simply, you shouldn't be getting XP for this because pre-patch is over. It is now the expansion. The expansion has released and everything that is pre. It shouldn't be there anymore. Okay, it's going, it's simply going. I wouldn't be surprised if it's already gone when this episode goes live, because of the reset, essentially. So we'll wait and see with that, but I thought I'd just let everyone know because it is simply what a lot of people are talking about. So this is where I want to end it. So thoughts on dragon flight. As we say goodbye, just asking general thoughts on dragon flight before the war within.

Speaker 1:

In my opinion it's been a refreshing, nice expansion big zones to explore with some decent content. Little bit disney vibes though I can understand everyone saying disney vibes, it's very dragons and stuff like that but classic was very much based around dragons and mythical fantasies and all of that stuff. Um, firstly, pvp wise, I'm going to speak on a pvp basis. It was a lot better than shadowlands. Now, shadowlands had the covenant abilities which made it very, very fun. I loved all of the covenant abilities, even the ones that were shocking against my class mind games, for example, as a druid, as a boomkin killed, killed me, instantly killed me. There was no chance I was saving myself through mind games. It was so powerful against me, like in Shadowlands, and I still enjoyed it. I still enjoyed it.

Speaker 1:

The problem with Shadowlands PvP was the gearing. I've gone through the gearing so many times in the past. You can look at other episodes and probably go back to the Shadowlands ones, where I just complain all the time about PvP gearing. You know there's a lot in there, but essentially what Dragonflight did right was the gearing. You could send Honor to ult, you could send Conquest boxes, you could in Shadowlands, but essentially it's the same. But you didn't need this stupid like you've got to hit a certain bracket in order to rank up your pvp gear which was a stupid concept but to begin with and should have been abolished about one patch into shadowlands. It was so stupid and naive to believe that it would work, and it is a thing.

Speaker 1:

My problem with dragonflight pvp, though, is that people can obviously change to Flavor of the Month very quickly. If a class is very oppressing, it needs to be handled very quickly, otherwise everyone will just switch to it. Demon Hunters were a good example of this. Elemental Shamans were a good example of this Stuff like that, and it wasn't handled correctly. It wasn't nerfed or buffed Like when it was needed. It was left. Now, towards the end of the expansion, can kind of understand it, because they are working on the war within, stuff like that, but they still got pvp right in my opinion, and I think shadowlands gearing pvp wise was what ruined shadowlands for me, because of the gearing, and they got that correct in Dragonflight. As for the raids, I've heard that all of the raids were very positively received in Dragonflight, so I would like to say it's a success. As for Shadowlands you know not too much. I didn't hear much about Shadowlands. I would say Dragonflight's raiding scene has been a massive success.

Speaker 1:

I think what a lot of people hated about the mythic plus, though, is the fact that it was very simple and dulled down a bit. Um, during shadowlands, they had these weekly affixes, or seasonal affixes sorry where you would have something that happened when you got to mythic plus 10 okay, so prideful was the one that I remember, and after you killed 20 of the trash, you spawned a prideful spirit. This gave you a damage buff when you killed it. Very simple in dragonflight you didn't have this. You simply had three mythic plus affixes, and they were very simple. It really dulled it down. It really made it kind of boring sometimes for a lot of the higher end mythic plus people, but it's very simple. Along them lines. I think they're bringing it back in or no. They are bringing it back in, uh, the war within, so hopefully that will rekindle the war with him. But honestly, if I have to rate Dragonfly as a whole, there is a lot of content on there. The centaurs like their hunts, you have the time rifts, you have the cooking community thing, you have multiple. You have something to do on there constantly, something to do on there constantly.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I would give dragonflight a very, to be honest, a solid seven or eight out of ten. I, I think I would give it a very solid seven or eight out of ten. I think what they could have done was a bit more sort of content patches, and what I mean by that is, um, balance patches, more so than anything. But that's a pvp standpoint, nothing much more to it. I think, in terms of rankings, out of all of the expansions, I would put it probably it's a contention for top three in my opinion, in my honest opinion. So I would put legion, wrath and maybe dragonflight I. I think those would be my top three, not in order. Not in order, by the way. Um, I think it would be third, though behind them too. I definitely think it would. Um, yeah, I, it's definitely up there. It is very much up there and competing with some of the better expansions. I think it's a very good standalone. Expansion definitely is a bit more amplified by how bad battle for azeroth and shadowlands were. I think that they did well with finally getting the expansion right for once. I think that they do get the praise on that, to be honest, but it is maybe a bit more sort of shinier because it has them two previous expansions before it. So I would give it a 7 out of 10. 7.5, let's just say 7.5. What do you guys think on Dragonflight? I think it was very good. I think that we'll miss it. I think it will be looked back on as a very fond expansion.

Speaker 1:

The city was very cool. You obviously had the evokers, which was a staple point of the expansion itself. You had a class or you had a specialisation that was actually released halfway through the expansion, which has never been done before. That will be remembered as one of the shit shows that happened during the expansion. To be honest, org evokers tore up the meta in everything they did PvP, pve it was hilarious.

Speaker 1:

I love when they were first released and essentially PvE communities never wanted an Org evoker. Pvp players were like I only want an org org plus boomy org plus dk, org plus whatever. You know, it was all good, whereas pve is were like, oh my god, you're doing such shit damage. Like get out of my group. And the whole point of org evoker was obviously to buff the other dps's damage. So, yeah, they didn't really understand that at the start, which was quite funny, and then obviously it caught on. Oh, they don't actually do damage, they're just meant to buff. Okay, it makes a bit more sense, but you know it is what it is. Yeah, that is where I will end it for this episode.

Speaker 1:

I think it's a very good point to say goodbye to Dragonflight and very much. It's been a pleasure, it has been a very good expansion and I think that we can all wave it off and give it a very good spot on the sort of tier lists for expansions. As far as you know, the expansions that we've had go hopefully the war within is very much similar. You have to remember, war within is one out of three parts of a finished sort of product story wise, so please do not put your full judgment on just one third of the story. Okay, the story will be finished when it gets to the third part. Just remember that. But thank you all very much for listening. Do check out all of the socials down below. Constant stuff happening over there. Thank you all very much once again, and go aval, a friend, goodbye all. Thank you.