Pig & Whistle Tales - A World of Warcraft Podcast

Adventures and Blunders: Navigating World of Warcraft's Hardcore Mode

• Gabriel • Season 4 • Episode 65

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Facing high-level guards in opposite faction camps might not be your average walk in the park, but what if those unexpected run-ins could teach you more about World of Warcraft's hardcore mode than any guide ever could? Join us as we share our own tales of near-misses and ultimate downfalls, unraveling the core of what makes WoW both a thrilling adventure and a test of true skill. We examine the art of situational awareness, and how a well-timed misstep in Hillsbrad or Ashenvale can spell doom faster than you can say "Son of Arugal." It's a deep dive into the very essence of player responsibility and strategic navigation, punctuated by stories that will have you nodding in agreement or laughing out loud at our blunders.

Switching gears, we explore the nostalgic charm of classic WoW against the frenetic pace of its retail counterpart. Whether you're drawn to the community-driven quests of the classic world or the high-stakes arenas of retail, your gaming preference speaks volumes about what you seek in your virtual adventures. We tackle the never-ending debate on class balance and the elusive dream of fair PvP, acknowledging that sometimes the most epic battles occur not just on the screen, but in the heated discussions of online forums.

Hope you all enjoy and hope you relate to any of these stories. And I will speak to you all in the next episode!

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Speaker 1:

Music. Thank you, hello and welcome to the Pig and Whistle Tales from Azeroth. As always here at the Pig and Whistle Inn in Stormwind, I go through a variety of subjects with regards to World of Warcraft. I grab a bottle or a pint, sit back and enjoy this midweek episode. We'll be going over a few bits and bobs, mainly to do with classic, but there are a few other bits and bobs thrown in there with it. So we will start off with a forum post, and this forum post reads Wow, hardcore Dying to Opposite Faction Camps.

Speaker 1:

Okay now, this is very simple. What could this possibly mean? Well, let's just say it's ridiculous. So it's no big deal in non-hardcore to accidentally stumble on an alliance camp and die to guards that are 40 levels higher than you On hardcore. It's quite silly. I just spent 30 hours or so and ran into an alliance camp in hillsbrad, like like every other death so far in hardcore not a challenging, just bad game design. So I said okay, I'll do it again. 30 hours later ran into an alliance camp in ashenvale. Simple fix make the guards an appropriate level for the zone takes what? 30 minutes or mark them on the map. In both cases the npcs were hidden behind one a tent and two a fence. They were not targetable until it's too late. Anyway, every death so far has been silly stuff. That's just because wow wasn't designed to be the hardcore game. Honestly, at least hardcore is somewhat of a challenge. I haven't died to a challenge yet. You died walking into an alliance town like. I think you're the one who might be challenging yourself with that.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so firstly, hillsborough Foothills. It is notorious for being Taramil versus South Shore. I wonder what that means. I wonder if that means that one town is Horde and one town is Alliance. Okay, who knows, who knows? But I wonder, if you're going to level in Taramil as a horde, where would the alliance place be? That would be south shore. So where's that? Okay, well, off to the east there's Durnhole Keep. That's a questing zone. Off to the west there are the uh, heelsbrad Fields. That's a questing zone where you know mobs are. And then you've got south. What? What could be south? Oh, a town. I wonder what this town is. It's an alliance town, obviously, like. It's absolutely ludicrous. It's not like it just popped up there one random day. It it literally has been there since the very start of world. Of it's nonsense. This is just stupid, um. Secondly, ashenvale it is a alliance, an alliance zone, mainly alliance. There is a horde camp on the far east, but it is mainly alliance.

Speaker 1:

Okay, you have astronaut that is located relatively like in the middle of, uh, ashenvale and then everything off to the left of that is kind of alliance, apart from one small flight path at the very west uh side of ashenvale for horde. Um, but essentially this is just their own fault. You literally don't check your surroundings or environment. Um, it isn't the game's fault, it just straight up, isn't? You are just stupid enough not to realize that there is a alliance and opposite faction camp there.

Speaker 1:

So let's put this into context. You see people who want to run through the barrens as a lions. This is a treacherous run, don't get me wrong, because you have to go to ratchet and then if you're following the path you hit crossroads, crossroads, horde zone. Go around it. If you want to go into stone, talon, mountains, for whatever reason, from the barrens, you have to go past a horde checkpoint. Okay, this checkpoint has horde guards checkpoint. Okay, this checkpoint has horde guards very dodgy round level 40 upwards and they can kill you straight up, can kill you very easy to uh, as well. So, yeah, you need to have the knowledge of the game and simply just put this is a skill issue. This is a skill issue and you have died to guards guards in a town, okay, guards where you're not meant to be.

Speaker 1:

Essentially, now there are quests that take you close to other settlements, like opposite faction settlements, and one of them being in south shore. That is very much the heraclores, heraclore, heraclore. Um, essentially, there's a quest that takes you to the graveyard of south shore and this graveyard has potential patrolling mobs and it's just not worth it. People who are familiar with the game and the quest know that this is a treacherous quest to do, so they just don't do it. But people don't know. People don't know their surroundings, people don't understand, like anything.

Speaker 1:

If you ever watch a hardcore WoW compilation of people dying, you will realize how stupid and silly your brain will become when you're put under pressure. Ok, I've seen people drown themselves. Is that is you? Know that the game's fault? No, it's you being stupid. I've seen so many people die to guards in wow. Is that the game's fault? No, it's people running into them. They're not aggroing from 500 yards away. You're running towards the town that you shouldn't be running towards. It's one of them. Things like you've seen people jump in lava. You've seen people jump off cliffs and die, like to like, lose their character, all of their hours of progression. They die just by jumping off a cliff. In 10 seconds it's all gone.

Speaker 1:

It's that simple. They get one shot by a random elite mob out in the world which is son of aragal or something. Now you can complain all you want about you know hillsbrag guards and stuff. Let's actually talk about the son of aragal. This is a level 19 or 20 or something, uh, elite mob that wanders around silver pine forest and has been the killer of many hardcore WoW characters and it's absolutely amazing to see. It's great fun. It keeps you on your toes while you're levelling, but people don't complain, people don't go. Oh my god, why is he here? This is stupid game design. It's a fun part of WoW and that is the classic experience. If you don't want the classic experience, then you don't want the classic experience, then you don't have to play it. It's that simple. And that's the same, like with retail. If you don't like the retail experience, you go, play classic, you know. Vice versa. It's absolutely ridiculous that you can sit there and say, nope, this is um, this is clearly the game. Uh, that is in the wrong here.

Speaker 1:

You run into guards in a town and you're blaming the game, like just how stupid is that, how utterly stupid is that. And the guards actually do serve a purpose in south shore and taran mill, I believe. I believe this will happen in taran mill, but the guards are a higher level because there are syndicate assassins that actually attack the town. And by helping, the guards are a higher level because there are syndicate assassins that actually attack the town and by helping the guards and tagging some of these assassins, you get a quest for killing them. Now, these assassins are probably about 10 levels, usually above what you are anywhere between you know, 10 to 5 levels, usually um higher than what you want to be levelling in Southshot at. So you need these guys to actually help you and protect you and they do their job. And this is the same with Tarim Mill as well. Otherwise, these syndicate assassins will literally be controlling your town and then you'll cry that there are these syndicate assassins and you can't play the game. You know it's something stupid like that, but yeah, it is what it is. There's nothing you can do about it. You just shouldn't run into an alliance town. It's really quite that simple. Now the next one is a little bit more open-ended. So why do you play Classic?

Speaker 1:

Retail offers new content every few months. True, sometimes I mean we have the wall of the drain or incident, but we won't mention that. Much better class balance, a large variety of events and side games. Fair and square PvP this guy has never PvP'd. No griefing nor bullies. Um, there is griefing. I would say there is griefing. You can grief in many different ways in retail. Um, a variety of end game content for all types of players, from clickers to top skill players. This one I agree with. You can find groups at your skill level at any time. Kind of agree with it. And graphic is well. I think this is meant to put graphics, but graphics are way is way more better.

Speaker 1:

What does classic or what does era classic have? Don't tell me leveling and world traveling experience when a half of leveling population is sitting in mage boost camps and the other half typically can't afford boosts and struggle to find dungeon groups from levelling 30 plus, in addition to everyone buying summons and world buffs. Okay, so what Classic offers is a different World of Warcraft. Now, this can change depending on what people think, but my World of Warcraft experience, my retail experience, is very much. I focus on retail as my main game, my main World of Warcraft, because it is World of Warcraft, my main World of Warcraft, because it is World of Warcraft. That is World of Warcraft.

Speaker 1:

Ok, I use classic, any form of classic, whether it be Season of Discovery, cataclysm, classic Classic Era, any of these. I use these as sort of filler World of Warcraft. Now, what I mean by this is ones that I can log on to and really just chill out. Okay, I don't have to worry about anything, I can just chill, turn my brain off, vibe, have a good time. I do not have to really go for it in comparison to when I play retail world of warcraft, because what I do in retail is very much. You know arenas and I'm very high intensity, like when I'm in these arenas comming gaming. You know, whatever it might be, cataclysm is very much a slower pace. So that is why I play classic.

Speaker 1:

Now, other people might play classic because they just like the feel of the game itself. They don't like the faster paced nature of retail. They might not like something about it whether the class that they play like is enjoyable or not. So let's say they play boomkin, for example. Um, let's say that they just don't enjoy it. They just don't enjoy retail boomkin, and that's as simple as it needs to be. It doesn't need to be anything else like if they don't enjoy it, they don't enjoy it, they are not forced to play it.

Speaker 1:

Um, I'm very curious actually what some of these are, what some of the um replies are. There are definitely some fun things about retail. I just got my keystone master mount. I might try and push high keys tanking on druid. The events are pretty decent, dells are pretty chill, profession stuff is okay and once you get used to dragon flying I don't think it feels very good not having it. But classic has a nice slow pace and content, especially now it-driven Heck, even Cataclassic. Some of the best gaming I've experienced is completely because of the faction disparity and user-driven community. That's fair enough. I could just be very out of the loop and not know how people form communities or meet others in retail. But it all feels very automated to me to the extent that it sort of feels like a single player game. It very much depends on who you know and who plays retail.

Speaker 1:

I think, um, I think that's what it's going to come down to for that one um, and they reply to the you can find people at your skill level. I think that's that, while there's something to be said about skill-based matchmaking, I remember reading something about a pesto recipe, about how a food processor will give you that storable consistency. But, grandma's, is he meant to put mozzarella Cut? Basil will have a variety of shapes and sizes in cuts that give it a. This guy is weird. I don't even know what this guy's trying to say with that. Um, I think he's trying to say, like, you can obviously mix and match with everyone and the skill differentials are obviously part of the game and it actually makes the game a little bit, you know, more enjoyable. I guess I'm guessing that's what he's going for there. I really don't know.

Speaker 1:

Look, I'm going to dissect these points one by one. New content every few months yes, mostly, okay, mostly, much better class balance. I would say. Yes, I would say, if you look at pre-cataclysm, a lot of the class balancing is inept, maybe even awful, um, so I would say, you know, retail is a bit better, but at the same time, retail does have meta classes, and there are some classes that I would deem a lot easier than others, in my honest opinion, ellie shaman being one of them, fury warrior being one of them, demon hunters you know, there are some classes that I would deem a lot easier than others, in my honest opinion, ellie Shaman being one of them, fury Warrior being one of them, demon Hunters, you know them, sort of them, sort of classes um a large variety of events and side games. Yes, I would very much agree with this. This is, um.

Speaker 1:

A good example of this is actually there is a micro holiday that is, uh, or is slash has just finished, depending on when you listen to this and that was during the 12th of the 11th, and this micro holiday is very much the moonkin holiday. Uh, you basically train some baby moonkins and that is it. That is the holiday. You don't get any sort of rewards for it. You don't get much for it. It's just something to have fun and enjoy and I think it's really cute and really fun. So I'm gonna, I've done it essentially, and I think it's really, really enjoyable and something that people should try more, like these little micro holidays, because they do go under the radar a bit, um, fair and square pvp. This guy has not pvp'd, okay, he really really hasn't.

Speaker 1:

I, you, you can't say it's fair and square. Pvp and MMO is never fair and square. You are on somewhat of a similar like level because of gear, because of how the game has developed over the years, where everyone's got some form of CC, everyone's got some form of like stun or interrupt or anything along them lines. But you know it isn't fair in terms of like. We have the same I don't know weaponry, almost like the guns aren't the same is the best way to describe it. Because I have, and let's say, for a shaman I have a, you know, really fast rate fire gun, for a rogue I have a shotgun. Instead, you know it's all in one go, um, all or nothing, whereas a shaman you're constantly doing damage, you know that kind of thing, um, so I wouldn't say that it's fair, I would say he's very off on this.

Speaker 1:

And this point is kind of null and void, because the fair and square pvp don't think it will ever exist in an mmo and no griefing nor bullies. There's always going to be people griefing and there's always going to be bullies. Is the best? I'm not sure. Really that's the best way to put it, but there's going to be people who are dicks in the game and it's just what happens. You know, it's just one of them things you can't stop it from happening. But again, this is nothing new to classic as well. Classic definitely has these types of players with it as well, so it's just a null and void point for both matters.

Speaker 1:

In my honest opinion, variety of uh, uh end game content um, yes, you do have the mythic pluses. You do have the normal dungeons, follower dungeons now, uh, you have pvp, you have uh, what else is it? Delves and stuff. So you do have a very big variety, as well as stuff like um, what is it called? Pet battles and multiple stuff like that. So this is very good and something that retail really does work on well and do better than kata and classic in general, which is really really good. Um, you can find your groups at the same.

Speaker 1:

Skill level doesn't really matter, because in uh um cataclysm, I play with my guild and we are very diverse in, excuse me, skill level, but I don't care. I have the best time when I'm with them and the thing is it's not even that diverse like. We are still all very good at the game, but you know it's you. There are subtle differences, and these differences don't mean that I'm not going to enjoy the game. I still enjoy the game even more though, because I just play it with people that I enjoy spending the time with. And just because someone's the same skill level as me doesn't mean that you know it's going to automatically make anything better, if that makes sense. It's just a ridiculous point. Um, graphic is way more better. Now, let's face it. That one's always going to be a given, because as you go through the years, graphics are always going to get better and better. So this one you can't really compare, in my honest opinion. So he's got some points, but a lot of them kind of stupid it is. It's a tough one to dissect, in my honest opinion.

Speaker 1:

Now I want to end up with the controversial takes from the previous what do you call it? The previous forum page. You know the ones that have controversial takes. That is what I want to end up on. So this guy says plunderstorm was immensely fun and should be a game in and itself. Okay, yeah, yeah, that's a not really a controversial take, because, well, a lot of people did enjoy Plunderstorm. Oh wait, hold up, he's put more With a distinct subscription price, separate from other Blizzard games. Yeah, okay, I think you've lost pretty much everyone. Um, after putting that, that is certainly a controversial take, but if I may offer another opinion, that is a fucking stupid take. Okay, straight up, a ridiculous take.

Speaker 1:

Plunder storm is a-based game or game mode and it should be included in your WoW subscription, which I can safely say that it is. If they are to do anything different, then there would be an uprising most likely, and that's not something that I think they're going to want anytime soon, not going to lie. So, yeah, not sure about the whole new subscription for Plunderstorm thing. There, mate, I think you lost a lot of people. Legendaries should be a one per server drop. Okay, I like the idea. The only problem that you're going to have monitoring this is what if people want to switch servers.

Speaker 1:

So let's say, someone gets a drop, someone gets a legendary drop on dark moon fair this is the servant that I play on now. Let's say I'm really pissed off about this. So I pay for a um realm transfer to a completely dead realm. Okay, the realm's completely dead, I get a legendary and then I want to go back to Darkmoon Faire. What then? Does my legendary get taken? Do I, you know, just complain on the forums that I've spent 50 quid transferring characters and now they de-ed my legendary?

Speaker 1:

You know, I don't think it's a bad idea. I think maybe one is too crazy. I think you can maybe look at maybe five, but I don't think it can be server-based because the server's very much fluctuating numbers. So maybe you do a certain amount for EU and NA. So maybe there's 1,000 legendaries in the whole of eu and a thousand in the whole of na and the, and if your account has one of them you cannot be flagged for another, that sort of thing. What do you think about that? I feel like that's a fair compromise because that way people still have a very good chance of getting it, but it's also, you know, still a lucrative item. It's not bad. It isn't a bad take in my honest opinion. And the final one the game isn't as bad as people on the forums would have you believe.

Speaker 1:

This one is very true. I would say that people on the forums tend to overreact a little bit. Just a little bit though. But that is where I will end it for this episode. Thank you all very much for listening. Do check out all of the socials down below. Constant stuff happening over there, as well as the etsy shop. More things are going up there on the daily basis, so please check it out. It'll be nice to maybe pick something up for christmas time. But thank you all very much once again and go with all a friend goodbye, thank you.