Mastering Mythic Plus vs. PvP: Strategies, Debates, and the Evolution of WoW

What if your PvP skills could outshine even the most seasoned Mythic Plus veterans? Join us at the Pig and Whistle Inn in Stormwind, where we promise to unravel the secrets to mastering the challenges of World of Warcraft. This week's episode kicks off with the latest updates, including the formidable world boss Aggregation of Horror and the chaotic fun of the Warsong Scramble brawl. Dive into the strategic realm of Mythic affixes like Devour and Fortitude, and gain insights on how to tackle these head-on. We also weigh in on the ever-evolving arena of PvP versus Mythic Plus, sharing personal tales from this season that highlight the reactive and proactive demands of arenas compared to the predictable rhythm of PvE encounters.

Beyond the battlefield, we take on the gaming community's hottest debates. Ever wondered how early access might impact your guild? We'll explore the mixed emotions surrounding this trend and the implications for players who feel left out. Time-gated content and the gearing system spark heated discussions—are PvE players underestimating PvP challenges? We also take a moment to appreciate the aesthetics of raid environments, discussing how today's designs measure up to iconic classics like Black Temple and Icecrown Citadel. Join us as we navigate through the intricate world of Warcraft, promising a journey filled with insights and lively debates. Grab your virtual pint and settle in for an engaging exploration of Azeroth!

Hope you all enjoy and hope you relate to any of these stories. And I will speak to you all in the next episode!

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Chapters

• 0:45 Comparing Mythic Plus and Arenas
• 14:07 Debating WoW Early Access and Gearing

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:45

Music do. Hello and welcome to the Pig and Whistle Tales from Azeroth. As always here at the Pig and Whistle Inn in Stormwind, I go through a variety of subjects with regards to World of Warcraft. I grab a bottle or a pint, sit back and enjoy this episode. We'll be going over a few things. I want to talk about pvp versus mythic plus pve, stuff like that and I also want to go over a couple bits and bobs that I've found on the forums. Now. These are very broad um sort of general discussions, but they are very intriguing to dissect, go over, maybe give my thoughts and opinions on. So we'll start off with the weekly news that we have the aggregation of horror as your world boss for the week. This is located within the ringing deeps. You have classic time walking. This keeps fluctuating between classic time walking and different time walking. I think it's going to be kata time walking next, um. So yeah, I'm not too sure what's happening there, but I think it was meant to be classic time walking throughout the entirety of the anniversary. But who knows what's happening? Um is what it is now.

Speaker 1: 1:55

Warsong scramble is your brawl for the week. This is very much. You need 10 flags to win the warsong scramble and all. There are three flags that you can pick at the same time. Quite fun, quite different. Take on warsong gulch. Warsong gulch still being the most iconic and best battleground in the game. Uh, since forever. All right, it's just unanimous, unanimously the best battleground in the game. Don't give me this alteric valley. That definitely isn't a wrathy base and no, that's awful. You know, it's warsong gulch. Let's face it. Warsong gulch, um, devour and fortitude are your mythic fixes for the week.

Speaker 1: 2:36

This is very much. You get a debuff on you every sort of minute or so. You either dispel it or the healer has to pump enough heals to get off the healing absorb. Otherwise the mobs will be empowered and they will heal for a bit of their health. So make sure these don't go off. If you have a decurse dispel anything along them lines as a dps, please just do it. It will help out your healer. So much it takes one global. It's not that big of a deal. Just use it all, right, not that tough, and this goes for warriors as well. If you're running the bitter sweetness or bitter immunity talent, whatever it's called for some reason, uh, please just use that, as it will dispel it. It is classed as a poison disease. It curse everything, okay. So please just help out your healer.

Speaker 1: 3:18

So what I wanted to start off with is mythic plus and arenas. I've done my fair share of both this season. I'm very much um, doing more mythic plus at the moment than I am pvp. The reason for this is because pvp firstly, um no one plays it until the very end of the season, as there's no point in pushing um, which makes no sense, because you know they have a system in mythic plus where you can constantly keep pushing, every single week and every single day. But in pvp you can't, because once you get to your bracket, you're essentially your max that you can get to. You're not going to get much further until the next month because inflation will kick in over the course of the four weeks and then you'll go up another, like 50 rating or 100 rating, however much you know you'll be around the same sort of point, um. So yeah, it's a bit annoying, but it is what it is now.

Speaker 1: 4:13

For me personally, it's tough to compare the two, but I can. I have done both of these. Both are very high levels of play and decently consistently. So arenas, I think, are tougher. Now I'm not saying that this is like the shit on Mythic Plus players or PvE players. Mythic Plus in its own right is a very unique set of skills and it's very cool.

Speaker 1: 4:42

But if I came from pvp and I jumped into a group of friends who do pvp, mostly, okay, this group of friends aren't bad as well. They're clearing heroic um, naruba palace, um. They might even look at doing some mythic naruba palace um. But yeah, they're not a bad group of friends. They aren't awful at the game. They are good at the game, um.

Speaker 1: 5:05

But in pvp gear, I know my rotation and it's as simple. As you sidestep this mob, oh, this mob has a frontal, so just don't stand in front of it. Oh, my god, this mob is turning towards me and using a cleave. Just don't be in front of it. Um, okay, he puts swirlies on the ground. You move out of it. It's so scripted and that's the difference between it. Now you're gonna say, oh my god, of course it's scripted, it's npc, yeah, well, yeah, you would be correct. But my point is in pvp, every single situation you have not seen. I've played so much p PvP and I've not seen every single situation in WoW yet.

Speaker 1: 5:47

Okay, but which means that you have to, like, think on your feet a lot more. You've got to be very reactive and yet proactive at the same time. Whereas in Mythics you can be very proactive Okay, you don't have to do much, you know what's coming active. Okay, you don't have to do much, you know what's coming like for miss missive, tin aside as an example, I know that for the first boss, you simply have to kill the droman, okay, and you can cleave down the big boss and then, when he has a damage increase on him, you simply pop your cooldowns. It's that simple.

Speaker 1: 6:18

All right, now, I know that the droman has a few abilities. He has one where he puts swirlies on the ground simply move out of them. I know he does up to two to three swirlies on the same player, and I know that the other boss has a fear, so you don't want to be around these swirlies when he fears, otherwise you'll run through them. That's it, that's the boss, and I know it inside out, and it's very simple to counteract these things side out. And it's very simple to counteract these things, whereas in pvp I'm getting chased down by a hunter and a druid and, yeah, I'm trying to avoid a stun trap, a clone, a like typhoon or a vortex, or you know, I'm trying to avoid everything and yet you can't predict it all. You can't predict when he's going to throw this trap. You have a good idea, but higher level hunters will. Instead of throwing a freezing trap, they will throw a like a knockback trap or a tar trap instead to try and bait out something. So high level priests.

Speaker 1: 7:16

I'll give you an example as a mage, you have fade to get through and you have a shadow of to get through Before you can polymorph a target fully. Now they'll usually fade first and then the second polymorph. When you're casting it, they'll use Shadow Word Death. Now, shadow Word Death, if you don't know, it deals damage back to the person who casted it If it does not kill the target. So if they are to use it on someone and they get sheped she, if they are to use it on someone and they get shept, sheaped, it will deal damage to them, breaking the sheep. Okay, so you have to bait out these two things as a mage before you can even get the polymorph.

Speaker 1: 7:55

And it's these sort of things that you don't have to do in PvE, like, yes, you can Shadow Word Death, but you'd usually use that for just damage purposes or killing. You'd never have to use Fade. Fade is a very niche cooldown in PvE and it will just reduce the distance that a mob will see you at. But the thing is you have Mind Sue for that as well, so it doesn't really matter. It's kind of non-existent F? Um for the most part anyway.

Speaker 1: 8:27

Now for pvp, you're using fade quite often, usually like 10, 15 times a game okay, depending on how long the game goes, the length of the game, stuff like that but you're using it very, very often and it's a very good cooldown for you. But again, it's people wouldn't realize that going from pve to pvp. But people who do pvp will realize the value of the spells more, I think, because yes, fade is used in certain such situations but people don't realize it when they go from pve to pvp. Just how good it is in comparison. Don't get me wrong. People are amazing in both pve and pvp.

Speaker 1: 9:07

The pve side I, I could only dps, uh, I I feel like if you put me in an mdi group? Um and you go over the tactics and we've ran the dungeon like multiple times, I feel like I could give you a very decent looking mdi like performance as a PvP player. Genuinely, I think I could. I could only do it on one class and one spec, but I can do it on a very decent level.

Speaker 1: 9:36

Now, what I do have to say is for learning your rotation. I think that's very good for pve um basis, but you know what? Yeah, in pve it's easier to get to grips with a different class and learn their rotation, because if you know all the mechanics, you know all the mechanics. There's nothing that's going to happen to you about it. You just know that, oh, this guy's got a frontal cone, we just dodge it and do our like damage rotation very simple, isn't it? And for pvp, though, if you want to learn a new class, obviously you have to have some skill in that class, but you've also got to survive. You've got to know your survivability, so you've got to keep track of your blinks, your displacement, your ultra time, your ice block, your wall, your invis, many different things, whilst trying to do the most damage that you can, and I think that that's where the difficulty lies.

Speaker 1: 10:34

I think that the defensive side of pve players is nowhere up to scratch in comparison to the pvp players I. I just don't think it's comparable, in my honest opinion. I've seen so many people who do pve die, um, doing stupid shit, um, just because they didn't pre-press something or understand the limitations that your character can take in comparison to PvP players. Again, it's just a comparison that I make. I think that both of them are very good and very good pieces that make the world of Warcraft like Endgame anyway very good. They make each element of World of Warcraft very good, make each or they make each element of water warcraft very good, both pve and pvp.

Speaker 1: 11:20

Pvp could use a bit more love. I'm not gonna lie. It does feel a little bit neglected. It feels like delves have come in and just trying to kick it out of the way and it's kind of upsetting, to be honest. Um, but they both have a like a purpose in wow and they both have a purpose in WoW and they both serve them purposes amazingly.

Speaker 1: 11:39

I just wish PvP got a few more maps. Maybe it would be nice, because Mythic Plus does get several more dungeons a year, so it would be nice to have a few more maps. Potentially I also would like to see a bit more uh pvp side. Anyway, the system change. I really would like to see a system change for pvp um. The one that I have in mind is overwatch.

Speaker 1: 12:05

Overwatch, one pvp change so you had a zero to five thousand score and whatever score you were, you were put in a bracket. So if you were 3k, you were diamond, if you're 3.5, you're masters. I want to see that sort of bracket and obviously the people who are the highest rating at the end of the season will get the 0.1 percent. But this incentivizes people to constantly push their rating throughout the season rather than just at the end of the season, because it it kills the game. It kills pvp mid-season because people just aren't playing. They're waiting till the end of the season, when inflation is the highest um, to push and it just makes no sense. It allows people. Look, if you're worried that people, oh well, they'll just do it so early and then not play, no pvp players want to play. It's just stupid not to until the end of the season. And if people were to push their mains, then they can work on alts, they can play on alts and have some fun. You know there's alts. We are actually allowed to alt in world of warcraft now because that they've made it user-friendly, which is really really good and something that should have been done back in shadowlands, back in bfa, back in you know, before then um, but yeah, it's, it's really good. Um, both aspects, both mythic plus and pvp. I think, as a personal opinion, pvp translates better over to pve rather than pve over to pP, because PvE is very scripted. Pvp certainly is not scripted. Okay, but yeah, that's just my small thought on it. I see this sort of conversation come up so many times on the forum set just in general discussion with guildies, with friends and stuff, and yeah, I just thought I'd share my sort of ideas on it. But I want to move on to the forum post now. Now, this one's a bit weird. So why aren't you enjoying the war within? So let's hear it.

Speaker 1: 14:07

Pre-order early access made five of our raiders quit. It was horrible for those just watching your guild mates have fun leveling up. They just sat there in valdrak and twiddling their fingers. I had three level 80s before they could even play. Worse, they nerfed leveling at the same time. Sadly, it was too successful. I can see them doing again for midnight.

Speaker 1: 14:27

When ian was asked about it, you could see it wasn't his idea or felt comfortable about it. Okay, firstly, if you have five people quitting because they didn't pay for the early access. Look, I didn't pay for early access mainly because I didn't see a point in leveling. There was no point to leveling Like congrats, you got three level 80s before the expansion came out, but you could do nothing. Mythic Plus wasn't unlocked, pvp wasn't unlocked. You simply just leveled the characters so people who didn't have early access didn't miss out on much and again you can just watch your friends like play like some people enjoy that. I enjoy watching people play like the game. I know some people don't, but again, you didn't miss out on much. So five people to quit because of that is kind of pathetic and stupid. I'm not gonna lie.

Speaker 1: 15:19

Um, I don't like the main story being time gated. I feel it's uh antiquated. What's antiquated? Uh, so many free to play games, give me everything. Why is it when I'm paying full box prize plus sub, I'm locked out of content I played for? Um, they time gate stuff so that people think that there's content that comes out. It's one of them things because people complain about oh my god, I'm gonna rush through everything in wow and then there's nothing, then there's nothing to do and it's like oh my god, release the next patch. Blizzard, blizzard takes so long, all that bullshit, and it's just like you're the one that rushed through it. This is why, like you're not having fun because you rushed it, just take your time, play some alts, gear up something you know, and the gearing system is horrible. Yes, you get to 6 10 fast and then literally wasting waiting for a wednesday reset or how many tunes.

Speaker 1: 16:13

I'm demotivating and Just make sense. Why am I doing this? There's so many amazing games out there. I could be playing and doing the same dungeon again and again and again. Why do I need to Valor stones to upgrade my gear anyways?

Speaker 1: 16:27

Like there's so many levels of crests, why add more BS at to a BS system, okay. Firstly, why add more bs to a bs system, okay. Firstly, the valor stones and the crests I think are very good. I think they are a very good way of leveling up um your character, because the valor stones you get from completing any sort of dungeon and delve and stuff like that, the crests you get for doing a specific mythic plus dungeon, so you get a certain type of crest for doing a Mythic 0 to a Mythic 4, and then a Mythic 5 to 8, and then a Mythic 9 to 10, that kind of deal. This, in turn, allows you to keep pushing keys and it makes it a bit more difficult and it keeps your gear at the sort of level that you want. Gear at the sort of level that you want. Okay, now this means that the gear that you have is at the same sort of rating as the dungeon, okay.

Speaker 1: 17:25

Um, I don't get why people are complaining about pve gearing when people don't realize the state that pvp gearing is so pvp gear. I need two embellishments. Still, I need to uh gem my gear, which costs so much honor and so much time. Yeah, I need to get enchants and guess what, I don't even get like gold for doing pvp. You guys do for pve. You can sell pieces of gear that you don't need anymore or whatever, but the thing is we were conquest capped, which is stopping you from getting your best gear until about two weeks ago. Okay, when did the season come out? It came out in like september, I swear. So we were. We were still conquest capped before, like you guys, had finished mythic naruba palace had done gearing like five different characters.

Speaker 1: 18:20

So it's ridiculous that pde players complain about gearing when I myself don't even pve and it's taken me no time at all to get like 618 item level and do decent amounts of damage. Okay, like 618. You might think, oh, that's pathetic. Yeah, I don't do a lot of mythic, but it's taken no time at all. I got geared quicker in pve before I fully geared pvp. Okay, and I do no mythics and I do loads of arenas, but because I'm literally stopped from getting my currency, I can't get the gear that I want. How is that fair? I don't want to see PvE players complain about gearing. Okay, I don't. It is ridiculous. And if you want to complain about something, go complain about PvP gearing, because I bet you guys will not, will not like it. Okay, and you will see that pve gearing is a breeze in comparison. Okay, please do it. I would very much be interested in seeing um, so let's carry on with it.

Speaker 1: 19:33

The gearing system okay, no, we did that raiding. I like the raid, but it looks samey and meh. Well, samey. I mean. Yes, the raid is taking place within a building, it's taking place within a palace. There's a theme to every raid. There is a theme um black temple, for example. You go through the sewers into the castle and stuff, but it's all like the same sort of color palette and stuff like that. Uh, ice crown citadel, one of the best raids in the game same kind of color palette. You're just ascending this tower. You know all of the raids look samey. I mean it's just ridiculous. Um, but they need to break up raids. The huge 8 to 12 boss raids need to go. Give us like three raids broken up, different themes and settings, to avoid boredom. Yeah, I know the next raid in 11.1 is going to be a big old raid again, all goblin themed. I'm telling we will all be sick of it after week six of seeing the same thing.

Speaker 1: 20:36

Variety is a spice of life, after all. It's why we don't eat the same thing every day. Okay, firstly, I would gladly eat pizza, you know, or pasta or whatever, every single day. Amazing. Secondly, you I feel PvE players are a little more privileged and entitled. Okay, so let's put this into perspective.

Speaker 1: 21:05

Pvp came out in 2007. Okay, 2007,. You had arenas, you had a few arenas. Since then, you have had probably around 10 arena maps added something along them lines. Since then, you have had probably around 10 arena maps added something along them lines. In that same time span, you have had Wrath of the Lich King, dungeons you have had Cataclysm dungeons, you have had Mists of Pandaria dungeons, warlords of Draenor, bfa Shadowlands what was the one before this?

Speaker 1: 21:39

Dragonflight? You have had dungeons, from all of them, expansions, not to mention. You get more raids in one patch than we get arena maps, or battleground maps for that matter, in a single expansion. Ok, in Dragonflight, I don't. We got one arena which was not Kodana offensive. Okay, in Dragonflight, you got three raids.

Speaker 1: 22:13

So You're telling me that you want Three separate raids For one patch. Does that not seem entitled From a pve player's perspective? Because I look at this and I think that some raids that are 8 to 12 bosses long are quality. They are meant to be raids, they are meant to be real tough challenges and you feel like you're going through a gauntlet and working your way up to something like ice crown citadel, like blackrock foundry, like multiple things, like multiple raids that you come across. Breaking it down into three raids means you get three to four bosses, like each time, and you're not forced to do every single boss. You can walk in there and do like three bosses and then leave and come back another day. You're not forced to do every single boss, but asking for three raids like per patch, yeah, no, I think that's very entitled and if you're quitting over it, that's even worse. That's even more pathetic in my honest opinion. Look, I get that some people want different things, but you get a raid each patch.

Speaker 1: 23:19

Pvp players get a, a map, one map each expansion. If that it's ridiculous. And yet, yes, it's annoying and frustrating as a pvp player, but you don't see anywhere near as much this entitlement. You don't see people going we deserve three arena maps each patch. Like, do you not think that people would be like that's ridiculous, that's so stupid. No one plays arena enough to do that. But like saying, oh my god, to give us three raids each patch is even that's not as like entitled or stupid. No, it isn't. Um, yeah, that's. That's absolute lunacy.

Speaker 1: 23:57

To think that you get three raids each patch, eight to twelve bosses, is very good, in my honest opinion, and I think most of the player base will be okay with different themes, like of the raid, like the next theme is a goblin palace really cool, it's got all the like goblin hot tubs, the goblin architecture. It's really cool. It's like kazan, like the starting area, very, very cool. Um, you had the vault of the incarnates, which was a dragon prison, and you had to break them out. You had, obviously a myrdrasil, which was very night elf colors, you know vibrant blues, green stuff like that. So you get a huge variety in raids. Again, you don't need that every single patch. You have more than enough throughout the expansion as a whole to get the variety that you need. So I don't know where this is coming from, but it is ridiculous in my honest opinion.

Speaker 1: 24:49

Look, that is the end of that post. But what I do want to say is both PvE and PvP exist in WoW for a reason. They both have their place. I just think PvP is a lot tougher to get into than pve. That's all. So with that, I will end it there. Thank you all very much for listening. Do check out all of the socials down below. Constant stuff happening over there. Um, even check out the etsy shop constant stuff going up there. I believe I have a storage dragon egg actually going up there, uh, either today or tomorrow, so keep an eye out for that as well. Um, there's actually many good things up there that you can get for a like christmas present or just for yourself. Many bits and bobs there, but do check out. It'll be really appreciated. But again, thank you all very much for listening and go with valor friend. Goodbye, thank you.