Pig & Whistle Tales - A World of Warcraft Podcast

Exploring World of Warcraft's Most Controversial Expansions: Wow Expansion tier list!

• Gabriel • Season 4 • Episode 75

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What makes an expansion the "worst" in the history of World of Warcraft? Grab your favorite brew and join me at the Pig and Whistle Inn in Stormwind as we dissect the highs and lows of WoW's most controversial expansions. This time, we're putting Cataclysm under the microscope. Despite its bright spots like revamped Deadmines and Whaling Caverns, Cataclysm's clunky transition from classic to retail WoW left many players feeling the burn. We tackle the inconsistency in class mechanics, especially for Boomkins, and the mixed PvP and PvE experiences it offered. Although Firelands stands out as a thrilling raid, the overall erratic gameplay experience places Cataclysm at the bottom of my list.

But it's not all doom and gloom—let’s reminisce about some of WoW's shining moments. From Legion's epic Antorus raid to Mists of Pandaria's inventive mechanics like Symbiosis for Druids, these expansions truly evolved the game. Features like Timeless Isles and Halfhill farming added layers of excitement, enriching the WoW universe. As we transition to the Shadowlands era, we explore the controversies around its gearing system and how it influenced both the PvP landscape and player engagement. Vibrant realms and captivating raids like Castle Nathria couldn't overshadow the drag of constant gameplay requirements. Tune in for a nostalgic journey through WoW's evolving landscape and the experiences that have kept us hooked.

Hope you all enjoy and hope you relate to any of these stories. And I will speak to you all in the next episode!

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Speaker 1:

Music do. Hello and welcome to the Pig and Whistle Tales from Azeroth. As always here at the Pig and Whistle Inn in Stormwind, I go through a variety of subjects with regards to World of Warcraft. So grab a bottle or a pint, sit back and enjoy this midweek episode. We'll be looking at mainly the forum, but I want to go over one big post almost, and then I have some others that are obviously a bit smaller that I can discuss if need be.

Speaker 1:

But this post I'm going to jump straight into. It is as simple as this what is the worst wow expansion? Okay, so in your opinion, what is the worst wow expansion? For me, it's shadowland, says this guy. Now, there's multiple ways that you can look at this. You can look at it from a expansion as a whole and what content was released and what was um in that sort of uh expansion, such as raids, dungeons, pvp, uh, actual outdoor content, so world quests, tour gas, you know them, sort of bits and bobs. Or you can look at it from a just a pvp standpoint, a pve standpoint, a uh roleplay standpoint, pet battles, or however you want to look at it. But there's many different things that you can look at it. So I'm going to try and look at it as a whole, okay, so I'm going to be covering three things. I'm going to be covering PvP, pve, and I'm going to be covering the actual outdoor content, that released with it or the sort of mini patches that you can get with it. Now, if I forget anything, I do apologize, um, and just simply let me know down right in the comments below if you listen on youtube or send me a message, whatever, but I do apologize if I miss anything. There is a lot of content that has happened in wow, so please don't get angry about it.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so at the bottom of my list. Okay, now do we include classic here? I'm not including classic at the bottom, by the way, but I'm not going to include classic because it's not an expansion. Okay, um, that's where I'm drawing the line. At the bottom of my list, I am going to put probably Cataclysm. Yeah, I think Cataclysm will be at the bottom of that list Now, the reason for this being see, I'm already doubting myself. I'm going to the third thing, or the fourth thing I'm going to place it on is the enjoyment and the actual playing of the game, like how it feels to play the game okay and I can measure it on that because I have played every single expansion now in a decent level, to a decent degree, with a decent amount of time, so I can actually judge that. So yeah, we're going to start with cataclysm at the bottom now.

Speaker 1:

I've given praise to cataclysm before, don't get me wrong. It has some good, good things. Some of the dungeons are all right. I like the revamped dungeons dead mines, whaling caverns, stuff like that but playability wise I don't find it enjoyable.

Speaker 1:

It's in the classic era of clunky but it's trying to become retail clunky, if that makes sense. So it's the first iteration of retail is the best way to put it, and it's as simple as that. It feels clunky because it's trying to implement certain things that it doesn't have quite cleanly yet. So, uh, eclipses, for example for boomkins, every single boss fight. You start out of an eclipse. It puts you at 50 or 50 50 and it's a bit annoying when you pop heroism to get into that eclipse quickly enough to get a full sort of duration of heroism and get the most out of it. It's annoying and it feels clunky. Um, because there's no consistency to it, because sometimes you'll get a proc where it doubles the amount of astral power that you get, not astral power, but um solar generation or lunar generation, and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes you can never see it in an entire raid, and that's why it feels clunky, because there's no consistency, whereas if you compare it to like retail, now you cast two wraths or two starfires, you're in an eclipse. You know it's very consistent.

Speaker 1:

Um, as for the pvp basis, yes, it started to get better, but there are only specific things that classes can do. Boomkins, for example, you spam moonfire, that's, that's kind of it. You span clone and moonfire. You rarely use anything else. Um, on your burst window, you're using staff, uh, starfall, and maybe an instant star surge every now and again, uh, depending on if you're getting procs.

Speaker 1:

Um, for pve, I would argue that firelands is a very good raid. I I would argue that firelands is very much up there. I have yet to test dragon soul, okay, so I cannot comment on that. But bastion of twilight, uh, throne of the four winds, and you know what? Was the other one not buried in hold? Oh, my god, have I forgotten bastion of twilight, firelands? I've forgotten it. See, I've forgotten it. Um, these raids don't stick with you, and it's quite sad because they are good aesthetically but not amazing.

Speaker 1:

Um, firelands is the only good one in my honest opinion at the moment, and it's just the way that class or catter feels that if it's a bit clunky in my honest opinion, um, so yeah, I would put cataclysm at the bottom of my list. It's tough, it is very tough, because you have so many that are bad in so many ways. You have so many that are good in other ways that this is going to be so opinionated. It's unreal. So I'm sorry if you think cataclysm is your top, um, but yeah, in my opinion, it's very much the last of the bunch. Now, second from bottom, I'm going to go.

Speaker 1:

Now, this is a toss-up between TBC and BFA, in my honest opinion, and I would say BFA, yeah, I'm gonna go bfa, I'm gonna go actually, tbc and bfa on the same line there. I'm gonna cheat this system a little bit. I would put tbc maybe a bit above bfa. Okay, and the reason being for this is raids. The raids at the end of tbc black temple and sunwell plateau trump that of the BFA raids. Now, what were even the BFA raids? Oh, my god, you have obviously Nazjatar, the Eternal Palace. You have the Battle for Dazar'alor. What's the third raid, nazjatar Mechagon? I can't even remember it, it's that forgettable. So I would put BFA under TBC.

Speaker 1:

Now, tbc obviously is still classic, but it released with some quality of life updates and introduced the arena system. Pvp-wise, the arena system was very out of date for TBC. You know 10-second blinds, 200-second polymorphs, you know fucking CC'd forever. Rogue Mage ran the show. You couldn't do much. Bfa PvP was a bit more balanced. But the problem with BFA is you had the borrowed power systems and these borrowed power systems, very much, were a problem when it came to PvP, because if you weren't leveled up on your power, like borrowed power, then you were just at a disadvantage. So you had to actively do pve content to do pvp or your best in pvp. Um, that's the reason, in my honest opinion.

Speaker 1:

Now, outside of that, outside of pvp and pve, you don't have a lot to do in Burning Crusade. You can go farm some reps in dungeons and that's about it. You can maybe do the Netherdrake dailies, but again, you really don't have a lot to be doing for BFA. You obviously have World Quests that had been introduced in the previous expansion, which is very good, but apart from that you don't have a lot. You can go farm some old mogs. I think this is when they implemented the um legacy loot stuff back in BFA. You also have the battle for dark. You have the war fronts.

Speaker 1:

That was introduced great concept just failed in its execution. So I think that many things went right for bfa, but a lot of it went wrong. Okay, so much of it. So I'll put bfa um just below, uh, burning crusade in my honest opinion.

Speaker 1:

Next up, I would put now, this is tough one of the drain, or is very tough to put anywhere, in my honest opinion, because the content that it did have was very good, okay, but the problem was that it didn't have a lot. There was a content drought which meant that there was literally next to no content. I think this is where Wall of the Draenor will be. Yeah, yeah, I've got to put Wall of the Draenor will be. Yeah, yeah, I've got to put Wall of the Draenor here, mainly because the raids are deemed as some of the best raids in the game. Like Blackrock Foundry, I should say anyway, is very much deemed as one of the best raids in the game, pvp wise.

Speaker 1:

I remember it being really fun. I do remember it being really fun. I, I do remember it being really fun. I loved mages having their arcane crystal thing. I loved the whole craziness that was wall of draenor and, believe it or not, I enjoyed ashran and garrisons.

Speaker 1:

I think garrisons are going to be the premise of what player housing will become in about a year's time. Okay, they're going to learn from garrisons. They're going to learn what made them shit, what made them good, and they're going to turn it into player housing. And I think that this is really good, because the isolation of garrisons is what made garrisons so annoying, because you just spent all your time in there and didn't see anyone. That's not what an MMO is. You want to see people in an MMO, so I think they're going to learn from it. I hope that they learn from it and I would imagine that's what they're using as a sort of baseline to go off of for player housing.

Speaker 1:

The Garrisons, but I enjoyed it. I loved picking the different buildings that I could have. I love doing the pet battles every day. I love doing the garrison missions every day. I didn't get the gold, by the way. I yeah, which is a bit of a shame, but um, yeah, I, I actually enjoyed it. I found it quite enjoyable, ashran I loved. The only problem is I was working with a potato of a pc that had been handed down to me and, um, it was on its last legs. It really was. So it's doing all right, it's still kicking around that pc, but, um, yeah, it just couldn't load ashram quick enough. It took me about five solid minutes to load it. It was kind of crazy that, and my internet speed at the time was negative or like I'll put it into perspective, the download time, uh, that we had at that time was 0.2 megabytes per second. That was peak. That was our peak download speed. Um, yeah, it's kind of crazy, but more does the drain, or just because of the lack of content it had, I think that it's got to be placed here.

Speaker 1:

Next one I will say is Mists of Pandaria. Mists of Pandaria had some really good raids. I would say that Throne of Thunder was very, very good. The Heart of Fear I'm not too fussed about. Mogu Shun Vaults was very meh as well. You know, there's always one raid in an expansion that's like yep, this is, this is sick. This is honestly so cool and, in my honest opinion, for me in dragonflight that was like a mere drasil for shadowlands. That was maybe the torgas one. No, no, no, that's actually a lie. That was clearly Castle Nathria. It was so good, the ambience of it, the whole look, the whole feel of it. Quality raid for BFA.

Speaker 1:

Eternal Palace for Legion. Oh, legion had a couple, maybe Antorus in all honesty, yeah, maybe Antorus was the one for me. Um, when I look back at it, it's so cool. You're assaulting the Legion's home world and stuff like that. Well, legion's home world now technically, um, but yeah, I'm going off track. Uh, mop had some good raids. They had some very good raids, some very solid extra content as well. Pvp was very good. There was some stuff that one-shotted um, a lot of people. Um, warriors were very strong, if I remember correctly, and mr pandaria is also after cataclysm, so a lot of the retail stuff that they were sort of transitioning into actually became a bit cleaner this time. So, dome, you have your boomkin eclipses. That changed, I believe. You have other wacky abilities that were in the game or the game. All were introduced. So Void Shift for Priests, the best one that I remember being in the game and only lasting in Mists of Pandaria.

Speaker 1:

Symbiosis for Druids Now, for those of you that don't know what Symbiosis did was the Druid, whether it's Rest, balance, feral or guardian, as you've got guardian druid now. Um, you would use your symbiosis on a player within your group and, depending on the spec and class of this player, you would get a certain spell and they would get a certain spell. So if you're targeting a holy paladin, for example, they would get, let's just say, rejuve okay, they would get a heal over time. And let's say, you would get bubble, you would get, um, blessing of protection or divine shield, yeah, and for every single class, for every single spec that you use this on. Uh, it changed and I thought that this was a very cool spell and something that should have been implemented further. But again, the balancing of that is very, very tough. It's it's almost an impossible ability to balance. So I can kind of see why they removed it, although it was kind of sad when they did, because it's such a wacky uh ability in my honest opinion.

Speaker 1:

But pvp, I thought was very good. It was a lot cleaner. There wasn't just people spamming moonfires, it was actually a rotation thing for dps. Um, as for pve, like I've already said, the raids were very solid, very decent and outside of that, you had different content. You had timeless isles. That was released.

Speaker 1:

This was the first major patch not major patch, but 0.5 patch that released these sort of islands. This was the stepping stone to seeing these in the modern day, in the modern game, um, which is really cool, you obviously had half hill. Now, half hill was a town that was located within one of the zones and essentially what you could do was farm. So you had a small instanced area. You didn't have to go for a portal, you didn't have to load anything. You would just have your own instanced area where you could farm some like materials, and these materials were cooking materials so carrots, lettuce, watermelons, stuff like that to use in your cooking, and you could upgrade your farm and get different things for it, um, by completing certain quests, doing reputations, etc. Etc. So I think that that was really good and something that was needed to be improved upon.

Speaker 1:

In my honest opinion, I think that something like that is absolutely incredible for profession like people, um, I think that they really missed out on doing something like that further. I genuinely do, but that's where I'll put Mists. What other ones do we have? We have Wrath of the Lich King. We have Shadowlands, we have Legion, dragonflight and then the War Within. Now I think there's only one thing that can go here next, and that is shadowlands, now wrath, yeah. Yeah, I would say shadowlands, now shadowlands, for all of the cool things that it had. It had the different realms of death. You have bastion revendreth, the maldraxxus ardent willed, the different color palettes, the different covenant abilities, the different everything.

Speaker 1:

There was one fundamental flaw in this and it was the gearing, and the gearing felt so bad. So for pvp, for example, this is what killed it, this is what killed ulting um in the pvp scene. Every time you got to a certain uh bracket so 1600, 1800 you would be able to upgrade your gear once more. Okay, one one extra upgrade out of nine or something. So if you were 20, 100, like 2190 rating and you were playing people who were 2200 rating, you are at a disadvantage because they have upgraded their gear. How is that fair? We're at the same rating and yet you have an advantage. How is that any fair? And it was such a grueling task because it took well over 30k honor to upgrade all of your gear and get your gear as well, not to mention getting the gear the initial gear. To even start and set foot into pvp, you would need to spend about 15k honor to even buy the honor pieces and then you would have to upgrade it with another 30k honor. So you know it's absolutely ludicrous that this was the gearing system, but that's what killed it.

Speaker 1:

As for everything else, pve wise, I don't see why people have an issue. Um, I think a lot of the raids were very good. Um, the raids were some of the best. Actually, revendreth um Castle Nathria, sorry. Uh, torghast, zerath Mortis wasn't great. In my honest opinion could have been better, but it's still got a very cool end boss with the Jailer and Anduin as a sort of half mini boss. You know that sort of thing.

Speaker 1:

Um, the gearing I think the gearing and the having to constantly log on or you'll fall behind is what made it bad. So if you didn't log on for a week, you would already be behind in your soul collecting your anima, collecting your torgaster um soul ash for your legendaries. So you would just be behind and there's no way that you could catch up. There was no catch-up mechanic and it felt awful as well, as once you chose a covenant and you locked into that covenant. You couldn't switch, not until like late on in the expansion. So people would make other classes and essentially you'd make four of one class these mythic plus or mythic plus and mythic raiders, and you'd put them all at a different covenant. So one druid will go revendreth, one druid will go um ardenweald, one will go kyrian, you know so, on, so forth, so that you had the option if this is the best covenant, you would go Kyrian, you know so, on and so forth, so that you had the option if this is the best covenant, you would go this, or if this was, you would go this. You know that kind of deal. Yeah, it's the gearing that let it down and the fact that you were forced to do the content. No one ever wants to feel forced to do the content. It feels like a job, almost If it's there. Amazing, if they just simply took the like, you had to do tour gas constantly, um, otherwise you would basically fall behind out of it and made tour gas cosmetics only. I think I think tour gas would have been the biggest success in shadowlands by a country mile. Okay, I think that it would have been that. By a country mile. Okay, I think that it would have been that by a country mile, but sadly you were forced to do it and that's why people hated doing it. It is what it is, sadly.

Speaker 1:

Next you've got Wrath of the Lich King, you have Legion, you have Dragonflight and the War Within. I'm going to put the War Within mainly because we haven't seen anything yet or like the full expansion yet. Um, so I can't really judge it, but from what I've gathered, the raid isn't bad. Naruba palace has a very good feel to it. Um, pvp I quite enjoy. The only problem is that the rating system in pvp is very bad and I would very much like blizzard to reconsider a different way of doing the rating system, one that keeps people engaged throughout the entire season, not just coming back at the end of the season to push rating. I would very much appreciate that and I think a lot of the PvP player base will also. Yeah, it's a fact that I cannot give it any more credit than what it does, mainly because we haven't seen all of it yet. So I would put it here. Now you have Dragonflight, legion and Wrath. I'm going to put Dragonflight.

Speaker 1:

Dragonflight, I think, was very good in what it did. Vault of the Incarnates Amirdrasil was a beautifullooking raid, by the way, as well as the outdoor content, you had the Farrakha Soul, you had multiple hunts, the Maruk hunts, you had excavations or the dream things in the last patch, whatever they were called dream portals. I forget the PvE stuff, but you had multiple world events happening at the same time. The last patch, whatever they were called dream portals. I I forget the pve stuff, um, but you have multiple world events happening at the same time. You obviously had some very good pve content as well, as this is when they revamped professions as well, so people are getting used to this. Um, I think overall, it was a very solid, very solid expansion and I think that not a lot could have been improved. Maybe you look at the tweaking of numbers or the um, what is it? The class tuning towards the end of the expansion? I remember they sort of gave up on the class tuning towards the end of the expansion because they were working on the new expansion release, um, so maybe they could have just done a bit better in that regard, but honestly, I think that it's a very solid expansion overall, uh, in my honest opinion.

Speaker 1:

Now the second place, I'm going to award it to wrath. Okay, I'm going to award it to wrath the lich king. Now, wrath the lich king has some great dungeons, some iconic raids, great, great PvP. In my honest opinion, it's actually quite good. It's quite solid for a classic version of the game. It is deemed a classic version of the game.

Speaker 1:

The only thing that Legion beats it on, in my opinion, is the fluidity of play. Okay, now, wrath was quite fluent in how it actually played, so every now and again, you know, for a boomkin perspective, you would get an eclipse if you crit with a starfire, if you crit with a wrath, you would have a 40 chance. So you had a idea of when you would get a eclipse. Um, but again, it felt very smooth, just in the way that everything played. It wasn't a specific sort of um, this is your best rotation. Well, that obviously was, but it wasn't a simple press moon fire only, or press wrath only, or starfire, or just frostbolt in molten core, or just fireball. You know that kind of deal. No, you actually had a set rotation, and I think that this is very good.

Speaker 1:

The reason legion beats it as well, though, is because legion felt immense. Okay, the patch cycle in legion every 76 days or something, a new patch was coming out. It's absolutely crazy the turnover that they did with that. Every couple of months, they would be turning out a new patch, and that is ludicrous, by the way. Okay, um, as well, as you know, you are fighting a big, big bad, you are fighting the entire legion, you are fighting a titan in sargeras, you are fighting a never-ending portal of demons, you are fighting everything, okay, and it's absolutely crazy to think that you know you are fighting this unbeatable force and you still do so because of these amazing artifacts that you get so zalatath, you get ashbringer, you get scythe of elune, you get fangs of ashermane, you get so many different things that are so cool and you can customise them, and you know it's so good.

Speaker 1:

The floor of Legion, though, is the PvP system as well, because they've recently transitioned to the honour system, and it wasn't a great success. In my honest opinion, the way that they did implement that was a very bad way in which they did so, but I would still say the feel of Legion, how quickly the patches were released. Legion has to be top, even though Wrath comes close with the race that it has in the dungeons, but, again, it doesn't have that fluidity of play. It doesn't have the patch release cycle. Stuff like that is what will bring Legion to the top of my list, in my opinion but again, this is just my own opinion this is how I felt when playing the game. This is how much I enjoyed it during that time.

Speaker 1:

You obviously might think the Legion's bottom. That is completely fine and that is your own opinion. So please don't scrutinize the list. It is personally my own list and my opinion. I think it's a very good topic because a lot of people think about one thing only and I think that people think oh yeah, pvp and shadowlands was shit, so it must have been the worst expansion. Don't get me wrong, it was, and if I go off a pvp alone, I think shadowlands will be somewhere completely different. But yeah, it is what it is. But that is where I will end it for this episode. Thank you all very much for listening. Do check out all of the socials down below constant stuff happening over there as well as check out the Etsy multiple things going up constantly on the shop. So please do check it out. But thank you all very much once again. Happy holidays all and go. A valafriend and goodbye all. Thank you.