Pig & Whistle Tales - A World of Warcraft Podcast

Gatekeeping in WoW Raids: Breaking Down Barriers

• Gabriel • Season 4 • Episode 91

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We explore the challenges of gatekeeping in the WoW raiding community, focusing on how add-ons affect players’ ability to join raids. Listeners hear personal stories illustrating the issues faced by new and returning players.

• Discussion about Season of Discovery and its impact on raiding 
• Examination of gatekeeping practices in the WoW community 
• Insights into the role of add-ons in enhancing or hindering player experience 
• Considerations for new players returning to an evolved version of WoW 
• Strategies to inspire inclusivity within raiding teams 
• Call for action against gatekeeping practices in the WoW gaming community 

Hope you all enjoy and hope you relate to any of these stories. And I will speak to you all in the next episode!

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Speaker 1:

Thank you, hello and welcome to the Pig and Whistle Tales from Azeroth. As always here at the Pig and Whistle Inn in Stormwind, I go through a variety of subjects With regards to World of Warcraft. Take on a bottle or a pint, sit back and enjoy this midweek episode. We're going to be looking at a few bits and pieces. I know the undermined has come out this week, but I'm eu, so as of when this episode goes live, I wouldn't have played much of it, so I can't really give my take on it yet, but that will be friday's episode, okay, so if you're looking for that, please do wait until Friday, because I really can't give a in-depth sort of analysis or my thoughts and opinions on it until Friday. I do apologize, but hey, we're EU man. What can you say? There's not much you can say, and they just have it better. You know, um, but we will be going over a few bits and pieces, um, ranging from season of discovery all the way to retail. Um, let, yeah, let's just jump straight into it.

Speaker 1:

So the first one that I'm going to address is gatekeeping in raids. This is a problem in most versions of world of warcraft classic season of discovery, cataclysm, I would say less so in retail. I would say that these are the main three culprits. I would say so. This person has a problem with it saying as fun as SOD is, I'm a little disappointed with how complicated it is to simply raid and get gear. Too many hoops to jump through, add-ons to download and toxic people to cooperate with, in my opinion, makes raids not worth it. I guess I've peeked at reels runs. Oh, they're the um tarnished coins. Why am I barred from content I pay for? Okay. You are not barred for content you play for. Okay. You are barred because of the player base.

Speaker 1:

So you can go into any season of discovery raid, any classic raid, any cataclysm classic raid, even retail raids to some extent, and have no add-ons. You can have zero add-ons if you really wanted now, you might die a lot and you might figure out the tactics a bit slower than everyone else. And you might die a lot and you might figure out the tactics a bit slower than everyone else and you might be a lot more lower on the DPS because you're not having an add-on to tell you what to do. But you can do it. The problem is people want you to have the add-on so there is a smoother experience for the raid. And this is the problem, because people think that you getting add-ons will immediately make you the best player in the world. It does not. I can tell you right now. It does not. That is not how this game works. Add-ons are there to help you improve your gameplay. Yes, but you can still be just as shit at the game with add-ons as without them. Okay.

Speaker 1:

So, for example, there was a rep paladin in Classic that I know of, like yes, he was a rep paladin in a classic that I know of, like yes, he was a rep paladin. He doesn't do much anyway, but he was so bad and dumb when it came to anything. Dbm could tell him what to do, but he wouldn't do it. Okay, it just wouldn't click in his mind that he had to move away from a beam. Okay, c'thun, eye beam. Yeah, it's a giant beam that one shots you and it ticks around the room very, very slowly. Very simple, right? If it said eye beam and he stood right in front of the eye, he would not move. It would be like his brain is on dial-up.

Speaker 1:

Okay, add-ons do not help the player. If the player is already bad, the player will not be saved by the add-ons. Add-ons just help better players achieve more in a raid, and don't get me wrong, it does help, but they aren't necessary for these sort of raids, okay, they really really aren't. So, people who are gatekeeping sort of classic uh raid, season of discovery, even cataclysm raids to an extent you need to stop. Okay, you need to get people who are actually not. They might not have even done the raid, but they are probably the better people to get than people who have done the raid genuinely and let add-ons tell them what to do. And raid leaders, because they might not know, they just hear move and they'll move. Okay, they're like sheep, almost. At least these players will be active and really like alert when certain mechanics happen and if they die to them, that's fine, they've died to them, but then they'll realize, oh, okay, I shouldn't stand in this mechanic. This is how I deal with it. Very simple, it's like that. Yeah, um, I have experienced this gatekeeping before in season of discovery.

Speaker 1:

This season of discovery, gatekeeping is ridiculous. By the way, the like content is some of the easiest content ever and because it's classic. Now this might be a bit different with the kerosene crips and like later content coming out like the scarlet crusade stuff, but naxramas all the way down to molten core. It's relatively the same sort of content. Now naxramas did get changed quite a fair bit, but I experienced this back in Molten Core.

Speaker 1:

So I did Molten Core the week before and I got a binding for it. I actually did get a binding for my prop pallet and I did this without any sort of issues. Didn't come with world buffs, I came with some consumables, but that was about it. I tanked it and I was in greens. I was in greens, I was in like blues and stuff. I was decently geared, like for pre-rapist, but not great geared. Let's just say that. So we did that and then all of a sudden next week when I'm putting together a run, we have someone who goes oh my god, I'm not carrying this guy through molten core and it's like bro, I literally did this already. It's molten core. The mobs hit like wet noodles. As long as I get a decurse on a healing reduction, I'm fine.

Speaker 1:

Like you have so many survivable, like you have so many things to survive in season of discovery raids. It's crazy, like it's absolutely mental, that people can think this way and it's like oh my god, you need to be the best kid ever in order to actually even play with me in this raid, because this raid is really intense and it's like, bro, it's baron geddon. You get a living bomb, you move out, and then you don't go near the patch that's on the ground. You know he does a sort of hellfire ability, you move out. It's not rocket science, is it? So the gatekeeping is bad, but I think that this is more prominent in classic Season of Discovery and Cataclysm, because these are the expansions or World of Warcraft versions that need people to communicate.

Speaker 1:

For raiding, okay, it's very much, oh my God, looking for more. What is it? Firelands for cataclysm? And it's like, oh, okay, you 10 out of 10 heroic. And it's like, no, I'm wanting to just gear an alt. But I am like 7 out of 10 heroic. And it's like, no, that's not good enough. You've got to be 10 out of 10, fully bis geared, need no gear from it. You need to have nothing required from firelands to join our runs. And it's like, great, yeah, whatever. Same with season of discovery. It's like, okay, are you fully molten core, geared to go into molten core? And it's like no, no, I'm not. Obviously I'm not. Why would I need to go into molten core if I'm fully molten core geared, like that's ridiculous? And then it's like, oh, sorry, you can't join them. And it's like what is happening.

Speaker 1:

But the difference is people want people with more gear so that it's just oh, okay, quick, 30 minutes into a raid, in and out done. That's what people want. They want it to just be very, very quick the raid and it's just ridiculous. It really really is. People need to get over themselves when it comes to picking people for raiding and I get that. You might get some every now and again that might just fully not understand and like are kind of bad at the game, but that's fine, that happens. Look, there's an example a few weeks ago I had we need an extra healer for molten core and we were selling the embers for the person because our embers collector for the legendary staff wasn't there. That week we picked up a holy priest, which was really weird, and they wanted the embers. Okay, that's fine.

Speaker 1:

A couple of us were on ults, a couple of us were healing tanking. You know something that we didn't really do. These are off-rolls and stuff. But after Elish Razor he hadn't done the tactics, so we went through them with him, like before each boss, and we said, yep, you understand, and he put, yes, I do. Okay, he proceeded to do the entirely wrong tactics. Okay, and yes, this is frustrating.

Speaker 1:

I am raid leading as well as like healing at the same time, so I'm doubly frustrated. But I have people who can answer for me when it's like okay, you need to make sure that you understand this, because I get angry. I, I do, but I can control that to some extent anyway. Um, so I have people in the raid who are a lot different in personality to me and they'll be like okay, so you need to do this, and like please make sure that you understand, because instead I would have went okay, you said that you understood, you didn't. You're being fucking stupid, get yourself together. You know that kind of deal. These are the people that you need in these situations. Because he eventually did get it. We eventually cleared the raid still, and we eventually got everything that we needed, which is fine. That's great.

Speaker 1:

It's just a bit more frustrating for the raid leader, and I get that people want fully geared, fully best you know, maximum effort. But sometimes you just got to take a chance and again it's about the people you're playing with. Um, I still enjoyed the time playing because I was playing with my guild. Um, obviously, it puts a bit of a dampener on it with that one sort of priest or whatever, but it happens. You know it happens and you just keep going on. You keep chunking through life, um, but yeah, people need to stop gatekeeping.

Speaker 1:

This isn't a blizzard problem, this is a community problem. It, straight up, is there is nothing blizzard can do about that. If people don't want you in their raid because you don't have a certain add-on or certain gear, blizzard can't do anything about that. It's their raid that they're making. So fair enough, and you're being barred for content you pay for by the player base, not by blizzard itself. You need to make sure that you know this, and the response to this, though, is a bit crazy. So this is your gatekeeping yourself.

Speaker 1:

Raiding involves interacting with other people and doing a minimal amount of necessary prep. If you don't want to do this, you have two options Start your own raid or quit the game and don't pay for something that you don't enjoy. Okay, basically no, because he's not gatekeeping himself. Raiders and people who are making raids are gatekeeping because they're offering up raid spots for people who are making raids are gatekeeping because they're offering up raid spots for people who are fully bescheared, fully like add-on download and stuff. You don't need add-ons to do raiding in, wow, you don't. Maybe in like retail.

Speaker 1:

Yes, cataclysm, season of discovery classic. You don't. You really, really don't. I promise I can tell every single one of my raiders in Cataclysm what to do exactly. Okay, I can. It's very simple. They can listen to me and they will not need any sort of add-ons. It's that simple. I get for pugs it might be different because you're not in comms and stuff, but no, it's the player base that's gatekeeping it, not himself. That's a ridiculous take.

Speaker 1:

Now, next bit is a bit different. These are returning players and sort of uh, newer players discussions. Now, this one's a bit confusing for everyone, but I'm going to go for it. So, upgrading requests here is my first season with the upgrade system, which I like, but it can be a little confusing. This is very true. This is very, very true.

Speaker 1:

We are near end of season and I have forward 619 gear, aside from 363 636 item level weapon and a 626 trinket. My other trinket is Mad Queen's Mandate, but only 606. My other trinket is Mad Queen's Mandate, but only 606. But with the low item level it has been a huge help with things like Zek'Fir and other solo stuff. Yeah, because it's very low level. Sorry if you can hear a dog barking in the background. That's nothing I can control. Um, so this can be very confusing.

Speaker 1:

The upgrade system. I have the other 619 trinket. If I use crest upgrade that to 66 also, does that unlock both slots to be able to go to 626 with Valor Stones? If, say, I got a hero track, mad queen or other trinket I want to use, I tried this macro below to only list one trinket I want to use. I tried this macro below but it only lists one trinket and says 619. I want to make sure I don't waste probably my last 30 gilded crests I will have for the season.

Speaker 1:

So this macro is long but essentially the way that the upgrade system works is you need two different currencies. You need Valor Stones, which you get by doing any sort of current content PvP, pve, delves, raids, dungeons, anything. You get Valor Stones for anything and everything and you need Crests. There are three different types of Crests. There are ones that you earn I think four, but three are kind of the important ones. There are ones that you earn for doing content, between mythic plus one and plus four, mythic plus five and plus seven, and then plus eight and above.

Speaker 1:

Okay, the higher item level your item starts at is based on what mythic or what content you did to get this item. So if you did a looking for raid and you got a trinket, this would be in the lower item levels to start with. Okay, so this will be, let's say, 606. It can go up to maximum. If you were to do a plus or a normal, heroic or normal raid sorry, I'll only just do it for raid purposes but if you were to do a normal raid, you would get a 609 trinket, and this 609 trinket can be upgraded to 619 item level and it would need a certain crest. Okay. Now if you were to do heroic raid, you would get, let's say, a 622 trinket and this would be able to go up to 630 item level. Okay, and then mythic, you would get a 633 trinket and it can go up to 636. These numbers aren't accurate, by the way, I know, but I'm not really great with the pve side of the item levels and what you know when they drop and all of that, but you kind of get the point.

Speaker 1:

So, with these different like brackets, you need these different types of crests to go with it. So the very first one, you'll need the one to four mythic item level crests. Um, to upgrade the next one, you will need the five to seven. The next one, you will need the eight to ten or something, and then the next one you'll need 10 plus. Okay, so this is how it works.

Speaker 1:

It is a very complicated system when you first look at it, but when you get into it it's very simple. The item will say if it is a certain type of upgrade. So it will say hero, or yeah, it will say like hero, champion, veteran, something like that and it will say one out of six. Okay, these are the amount of upgrades that you can give to that item. So once it's six out of six, you cannot upgrade it anymore. No matter what. You cannot, you will need to get a better item. You need to get the same item dropped at a higher item level from a more difficult content in order to upgrade this more. So, for example, the queen's mandate trinket or whatever this guy has is dropped from queen ansarek. If he did this on looking for. Raid 606 is the highest item level that he can get on this trinket. If he was to do this on normal, this trinket would drop at 609 item level and then be able to upgrade six times from this item level. So it can go up to 619 item level.

Speaker 1:

But do you see where I'm getting with this? It's a very complicated system but some people need to understand it to actually upgrade their gear and get like different bits and bobs and get the most out of it, because it is quite complicated when you first look at it. Once you get the hang of it, you understand. You really do. But it's kind of like the crafting orders in dragonflight. When it first started I had no idea what I was doing. Same with, um, the war within to a certain extent, because I still had no idea, like how to make these rings or anything like that. I just sort of guessed. Okay, but it does work and you just need to give it time so that your brain can figure out, like how it works essentially. But if this helps, please let me know, because it is a very complicated system. I get confused with it myself sometimes. I just hope that this helps, because there is a lot of people out there who really don't understand it, and it can be annoying, it really can be.

Speaker 1:

Now, as for the next one, and probably the last one we're going to go to, I don't understand the game anymore. Okay, I've not read any of this, so this could annoy me. Okay, this genuinely could annoy me. I played some back when wrath of the lich king was just coming out. Okay, when wrath of the lich king was just coming out. So, 2008, this guy played. Okay, keep Keep that in mind. 2008. I never reached the end game content. Okay, so he never reached level 80. I think I leveled a character to around 45 and I quit playing 45. He didn't even get halfway. Now you might say, oh, but 45 is over halfway to level 80. Yes, numbers-wise, but XP wise and actual leveling wise, no, because if you look at classic um, the xp, you needed to get to level 60. You got halfway around level 44 or 46. It was one of them too, so he wasn't halfway. Um, I'm trying wow out again. I know, I'm just confused. I'm leveling a pandaren monk okay, good choice.

Speaker 1:

And as soon as I went out of the pandarian beginning area, I have no idea where to go. There's so much stuff in orgrimmar, what's on earth? What on earth are timelines? Is there some recommended way to experience the story? Do I even need to bother buying the war within until I've stuck around to level 70? There's just a lot going on and it seems, on it seems, and I'm kind of lost, but I like all the races and stuff that aren't available in classic. If there's a youtube video or article somewhere that explains this stuff, or if someone can just help orientate me, I would be very appreciative. Okay, so I thought this was going to be like. Oh, it wasn't as good as wrath of the lich king. When I first played it in 2008, I thought it was going to be like that, but this is a very fair point. When you log back into retail, it is is overwhelming. It is very, very overwhelming, and I do understand that.

Speaker 1:

Firstly, timelines. What timelines are is a way to experience the expansion through something called Chromie time. What you do is you go talk to Chromie who's in Orgrimmar or Stormwind, whichever faction you've picked, and essentially you can pick any of the expansions to level in. So anywhere from Cataclysm, burning Crusade, wrath of the Lich King, mists of Pandaria, warlords of Draenor, battle for Azeroth, shadowlands and Dragonflight. Newer players will be sent to Dragonflight, though I believe immediately they don't get a choice in that new players will be sent there, um, to sort of catch up with the story and what's happened, kind of deal.

Speaker 1:

Now, this is how you will level. Um, this is just what they call timelines. Okay, that's all it is. All you need to know is that there isn't much. It looks like there's a lot happening, but it doesn't happen until end game. Okay, so you can slowly pick things up as you're leveling. So, let's say, you start and you go to missa pandaria to level, okay, you can do the missa pandaria questing, but up until level 70, and until then you like, don't have to buy the war within. But once you hit level 70, you will need the expansion because it will force you out of, uh, chromie time or timelines and it will essentially bring you to the war within content. Okay, this way you get to experience the current content as it's being leveled through currently, which makes sense. It does make sense. Um, after this expansion, the war within will be added to chromie time. Okay, this is how they're doing it from now on.

Speaker 1:

Um, there isn't a lot that you need to worry about? I genuinely don't think so. All of the stuff happens at end game, when it's stuff like the bonus events and stuff, world quests. You know all of these different types of things that they've added over the past couple of expansions that are meant for end game content, like even battle pets to some extent. So do not worry about any of this stuff while leveling. Just enjoy the leveling experience, enjoy the questing, enjoy the zones, enjoy everything like that, and then you can start playing around with end game content pvp, pve, mythic plus uh, delves, battle pets, world quests. You know absolutely everything like that and you will find your niche that you like. Maybe it's pvp, maybe it's delves, maybe it is battle pets, maybe it's just. You know herbing, mining, maybe it's doing professions. You know all of this stuff. So there isn't a lot to it when you're leveling.

Speaker 1:

All you need to know about is chromie time while leveling. That's all it is okay. Um, there's not much more I can say to help. I've probably missed out some very key, important points. I'm not going to lie, but this is the thing that you need to focus on first. Okay, I know it looks overwhelming. I know it looks scary. I know that you see Zeppelins constantly going in and out of Orgrimmar and wondering, oh, where are they going, what's that doing? And some stuff like that. But I promise you just focus on the leveling. Go to chromie, pick an expansion and level in it. Okay, nothing more needs to be done on your end. Just enjoy the zones, enjoy the questing. When you get to level 70, that's when you can start looking into the different things that are happening. Okay, because that's when more stuff will unlock to you. It's that simple. But that is where I will end it for this episode.

Speaker 1:

Thank you all very much for listening. Do check out all of the social media stuff, constant stuff happening over there, as well as the Etsy shop, multiple things that have been going up. I've recently put up a helmet domination and, oh my god, what was it? I put up an exit, our life staff, actually something that was quite fun to create. Um, took me a bit and a couple, a few attempts actually to create, but it is up there and it is quite fun to see in person. But thank you all very much for listening once again, guys, and go, valafriend, goodbye all. Thank you.