Retail vs Classic: Why I Choose Modern WoW Despite the Criticism

The fragmentation of World of Warcraft across multiple versions and hundreds of servers creates an illusion that the game is dying, despite a healthy player base estimated at 3-6 million players.

• Weekly world bosses include Shirai in Hallowfall and the Gobfather in the Undermine's Cage of Carnage
• Battlegrounds and Pet Battles are this week's bonus events with increased honor and XP
• The weekly brawl is Cooking Impossible, requiring 30 ingredients
• Mythic affixes are Ascended and Tyrannical for increased boss difficulty
• Retail WoW offers more engaging PvP compared to Classic's "rock-paper-scissors" system
• Classic WoW's slow pace can be boring for players who prefer more stimulation
• The game isn't dead but feels emptier because players are spread across 200-300 different servers
• The Undermine zone captures goblin entrepreneurial culture but rates a "generous 6/10"
• The new drive system is interesting but may need adjustments for older zones
• Story mode for raids is an excellent addition for players who don't raid regularly

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Chapters

• 0:45 Welcome to Pig and Whistle Tales
• 1:25 Weekly World Boss and Event Updates
• 2:58 Retail vs Classic WoW Discussion
• 7:27 Is World of Warcraft Really Dead?
• 14:43 The Problem with Multiple WoW Versions
• 19:21 Thoughts on The Undermine Patch
• 22:49 Final Rating and Etsy Shop Teaser

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:45

Thank you, hello and welcome to the Pig and Whistle Tales from Azeroth. As always here at the Pig and Whistle Inn in Stormwind, I go for a variety of subjects with regards to World of Warcraft, so grab a bottle or a pint, sit back and enjoy this episode. We'll be going over the latest patch. We're going to be looking at a few bits and bobs that people might have a bit of like concern about, just in the game in general and the patch in general, and I'll be giving my thoughts on it and essentially giving you the lowdown of what is happening like now that the patch is fully in swing. But we have the weekly news, as always. We have Shirai, who is the world boss located within Hallowfall, and we actually have our second world boss of the expansion. This is the Gobfather. This is a giant mechanical suit that is located within the Undermine, the very north, within the Cage of Carnage, and this is where the new Battleground essentially is. So it's a cool looking boss. But these are your two world bosses for the week.

Speaker 1: 1:55

Battlegrounds and Pet Battles are your bonus events for the week. You get more honor from competing in Battlegrounds as well as more xp for competing in pet battles. Very simple there cooking impossible is your uh weekly uh. Oh, my god, there we go, brawl, I got it, got it. Uh is your weekly brawl. This is essentially you bring 30 ingredients to your cooking pot. Very simple, very easy. Um, you've got to do it before the horde do it, or the alliance, depending on who you're playing for, and ascended and oblivion are or ascended and tyrannical, sorry, are your mythical fixes for the week. Ascended, uh is essentially the ad will drop down or zalatath will spawn and you simply kill zalatath. And tyrannical. This means that the bosses have more health and the mobs that they summon have more health and damage as well. So make sure you bring a talent build that can accommodate for that.

Speaker 1: 2:50

So I'm going to start off by addressing something that's quite a controversial thing. So what keeps you playing retail instead of classic? As stated in the topic, I lost all interest in retail and with classic doing so. Well, I'm wondering who plays retail and for what reason. Um, now, some people have different uh thoughts on why they play retail. Some people don't like playing retail. Some people prefer playing classic.

Speaker 1: 3:21

Now, personally, the pvp for me is what brings me back to retail. I enjoy the pvp so much more than pvp in classic, whether it be cataclysm or classic era um, it's just nowhere near as engaging I it really, really isn't. Um, classic pvp is very much rock, paper, scissors if. If you're rock, you're gonna lose to paper. If you're scissors're going to lose to paper. If you're scissors you're going to lose to paper. Or you're going to beat paper. If you're scissors you're going to lose to rock. You know that kind of deal. This is very much well for a lot of the classes anyway. So mage versus warrior Mage is rock, warrior is scissors. You know it's not going to go well for the warrior If you go like rogue mage. They're both scissors. So essentially this is a very close matchup and it's actually quite enjoyable, whereas if you look at warlock versus anything, it's just an unkillable source of infinite healing, damage and sustainability from the warlock, whereas you're going to get folded like a piece of paper and kicked out of the like door. Essentially you've got no chance against a warlock. Um, so pvp very much the thing. That brings me back, as well as collecting old transmogs, even pve to an extent.

Speaker 1: 4:38

I did the mythic plus season last season and I enjoyed it. I did it for about a month or two and I really did enjoy like doing these things, um, but obviously classic doesn't have that. I tried to play classic hardcore. I've done classic hardcore. Before I got to level 60, I streamed all of it. I aoe grinded my way up there from mage, from level 20 or whatever I was, and I hit level 60 purely through aoe grinding.

Speaker 1: 5:07

Um, the problem that I have with hardcore is that it gets too boring. Genuinely it's too boring. Classic is too slow for me and it's just too slow for my brain in general. This is why I need to play something that is a lot more stimulating, and that is what retail does for me. It just does so probably the stimulation of my brain is what it does retail, and that's what brings me back to it.

Speaker 1: 5:35

But I get that some people just want to chill on Classic, and Classic is a lot more, I guess, user-friendly when it comes to playing the game, because you simply walk up to a mob, you start stabbing it and that's kind of what you do for 10 seconds and then it's dead and then you ding and then you get another spell and this spell you might actually press and you press it and it doesn't do a lot of damage and it's like oh okay, well, it's the only spell I can press, so you press it. You, it's the only spell I can press, so you press it. You know it's not as engaging it really, really isn't. I don't know, it's a weird one, but a lot of it is down to PvP, pve and just the quality of life improvements in general that are within retail.

Speaker 1: 6:19

I really don't enjoy how long the game takes and this is someone who's got enough time to play classic and to level in classic. I just don't enjoy it. It's so slow and it puts me to sleep Genuinely. I've almost fallen asleep playing classic because how boring it is for me that's my opinion. It is very boring. It might not be to other people because it might be retail, might just be very tough to play for other people and that's fine. Or they just don't enjoy the gameplay mechanic or the aesthetics or anything like that, and that's fine. I understand that. But the main reason would be pvp. For me it's just so much better than any sort of like, uh, classic can offer, really up until about I would probably say warlords of draenor. That's when pvp started to get a bit unenjoyable for, like the current like season or the current sort of um world of warcraft. I guess that's when it started to become a bit more enjoyable. Warlords are drainable.

Speaker 1: 7:22

The next one I want to talk about is so is this game dead? Now, this is one that obviously pops up quite a few times. Is this game dead? Oh my god, dead game. Ridiculous game like dead game. Like been dead for five, ten years. It isn't dead. All right. Before I even read this, the game isn't. It's in a very healthy state. The game looks dead because this person's either playing classic and it's a classic server that has been, you know, re-released 20 times already and the classic sort of population has been spread out across five different classic platforms as well as 50 different servers or it's someone just trying to rage bait.

Speaker 1: 8:04

Let's see. I'm looking through dungeon lists. I see no keystones for rookery, the one I did get into. We waited 30 minutes for a tank, then DPS went AFK, then tank left. Couldn't find another keystone in the group finder at all. Could hardly even find signups for Gallywix, which is crazy because it's the last boss. Do I just take the L and move on already? Okay?

Speaker 1: 8:27

So, firstly, not many people are playing during the week, so this guy posted this nine hours ago, as of when I was recording, and this brings it to around. I'm going to say this is EU. I want to double check. Yeah, this is EU forum, so this is around 6pm. Okay, as of when I'm recording. You know this is nine hours after. This is 6pm. So who is playing mid, like not midweek, but well, yeah, midweek at 6pm? Like it's just not happening.

Speaker 1: 9:10

There aren't going to be that many raids. There aren't going to be that many like, uh, mythics going on. Okay, a lot of people. When it comes to the start of the mythic plus season, it's, it's a slow burner. It gradually grows. Okay. This is the same for pvp, pve, pvp, especially because, um, you can't really grind out all of the gear that you want, so it takes so many weeks to grind all that gear out. It really is annoying. But, um, yeah, essentially it takes a few weeks to. You know, put on the burners and everyone starts playing mythic plus, pvp, etc. People will be having their dinner around this time. People will be coming from home, from work around this time. People will be like wanting to just chill out and not like immediately go into, like a normal end boss raid kind of deal. Um, yeah, it makes no sense. If you were to do this on a weekend, you're gonna obviously get so many more people like sign up. Essentially, you're gonna get so many more sign up.

Speaker 1: 10:14

But what annoys me is this yes, the game is dead. In fact, it has been dead since cataclysm. Just look at the comments in the forms and you can tell. That being said, in spite of being dead, it has remained the number one mmo in the known universe. So maybe it would be better to say that it is undead. Can't tell if this guy's trolling, can't tell if he's being serious, but I'm going to take it with a pinch of salt and hopefully say that he's not being serious. But this is ridiculous. Okay, it's absolutely ridiculous. The game isn't dead. It has probably like 5 to 6 mil. I'm guessing somewhere around that If we're going to be super, super, like shitty with it, I'm going to say three mil. We'll say three mil. That's like low estimations, all right, and because at its very peak back in Wrath of the Lich King, it was at 12 mil, I believe, like concurrent player bases, something like that. But I think that it's still holding a healthy amount for an mmo.

Speaker 1: 11:17

The reason people think it's dead is because the amount of servers that are on the game, the amount of different world of warcrafts that are out now it's just ridiculous. Okay, you're telling me that you want the game to feel like an mmo when people are split between so many different servers and world of warcraft. So you have retail, not to mention all of the different servers that are on there. You have like 30 plus different servers that you can choose from on retail alone, okay. And then you're further like slimming this down by who turns on war mode, who doesn't have war mode on, very simple, okay. Then you're telling me that we have Cataclysm Classic, and even this has some like servers. This has like several to teen servers, something like that. So you're splitting the player base up there.

Speaker 1: 12:06

And then you have Classic, like Classic, classic. This is the anniversary realm. So Classic Classic, the normal one that's going to go into tbc. You have multiple servers there. You have a classic hardcore again, it's just it's only one server but it does take some people away from classic. And then you have classic era servers. These are about four to five sort of classic era servers that people have been spread out on and essentially split up and not many people inhabit these servers now that classic classic is out which is ridiculous, by the way.

Speaker 1: 12:40

Um, and then you have, oh, there was one more season of discovery. Again, multiple people were playing season of discovery. So you're you're spreading all of these people out, and again, there's loads of servers on season of discovery. So you're spreading these people out, and again, there's loads of servers on Season of Discovery. You're spreading these people out across how many even was that? How many did I count? Let's just say, in total, about 100 servers. No, there's going to be way more. There's going to be way more because you have the Italian servers, spanish servers, russian servers. You have loads. Okay, there's way more. There's probably more like 200 to 300, okay, somewhere along that range.

Speaker 1: 13:18

So, yes, it's going to feel dead at times, but because that's the player base going, oh, we want classic, classic, we want a fresh classic, start again. And it's like no, it's just going to deplete the servers. It really is Like some people will not want this and stay on the server. That is like low population, now, some people will move on over there. And then, when tbc comes out, it's going to be oh, we want classic, classic, classic. And it's like are you, are you stupid? Are you actually stupid? You're just depleting the sort of player base, not depleting the player base further, but you're making it look as though you're just breeding dead realms. Essentially, these are dead realms that very few people play on. And then these people go on the forums and be like oh my god, this realm is dead, the game's dead. Awful game.

Speaker 1: 14:07

Blizzard fix this game. Like, make new servers again so that loads of people play. And it's like that doesn't fix it. Having less servers is what fix it. But then people go oh my god, the lag, the lag. Why are people like layering? Why do blizzard need layering in this game? Like, just let everyone lag and they have to deal with it. And it's like you cannot win. You cannot win, but the game isn't dead. The game really isn't dead. It's absolutely ridiculous. Um I, I don't know it's. It's just always been a little pet peeve of mine that the game isn't dead at all. People need to just realize that we as a like community are self-sabotaging ourselves by saying, yeah, we need like more servers and different wows and stuff. And it's like yes, classic wow, that's fine. I'm completely fine with like classic wow being a thing. Okay.

Speaker 1: 15:07

I personally think that when it got to wrath of the lich, it should have maybe started over again, but I see why they didn't do it. I see why they went into Cataclysm and are going into Mists of Pandaria because people hadn't experienced these expansions before, and I think that's great. I think that people need to experience these expansions because I have very fond memories of Mists of Pandaria. I have quite good memories of Warlords of Draenor. I just think that it lacked content, like it really was just a drought. So I think that these are good things that have happened, but I think that eventually it should have went back to Classic. Classic.

Speaker 1: 15:46

And I think that they would have done this after Legion and that they should have done this after Legion. Okay, because what this meant was Classic came out in 2019. Ok, if you go by the dates, legion Classic will be out in around 2029. Yeah, somewhere around that. Ok, after this, this would mean it would have been 10 plus years since classic had released, and guess what? 10 plus years is definitely more than enough time to go back to classic. Okay, and this would have been a bigger nostalgia trip than going back to classic. Classic now, because it's just ridiculous. Okay, it is absolutely ridiculous.

Speaker 1: 16:33

But this way there would have been only two whales, there would have been Legion and there would have been the Whatever it might be Like going forward, the retail version of World of Warcraft, and you would have had classic era servers. These classic era servers would have stayed there and that's fine, and people would have gotten their fill of the classic era servers. They would have had a completed character, like a full bis character, with atiesh, all their tier three gear, you know best trinkets, best rings, all that stuff, um, and then you know the classic uh, re-release is going to happen after legion and it's like oh my God, that's amazing, like hype again. And then, once that does, all of the Legion or everything that you had from that Classic server is kind of filtered into retail. So you can keep the transmogs, you can keep the cosmetics, the toys, the mounts that you got from these expansions, and I think that that's what should happen, in my honest opinion, when it gets to the end of like the first classic. I think that that's what should happen. It should filter into like retail. You should be able to keep the transmogs that you have, to keep the mounts that you earn all throughout this so that you know. You could have the Ateas, you can have Benediction, you can have your Shadowmourne, you can have what areourn you can have what are the other legendary weapons, you know, that kind of thing that have been taken out of the game. But like Rock Delar, lock Delar, you can have these in retail, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 18:04

Look, I went off on a bit of a tangent there. I think that that's what should have happened. I can see why they've done Classic Classic, but I think it's too early for me. The whole point of going back to Classic was a nostalgia trip and 15 years after the release of World of Warcraft amazing, absolutely amazing, to experience Classic World of Warcraft and I had a good time. I did have a good time. I'm upset about the raiding experience I had. That's all I think.

Speaker 1: 18:34

If you gave it up until Legion classic had been done, I think it would have been enough time for everyone to get hyped about classic again and the re-release and actually enjoy it. I genuinely do, and I think that that's where they've kind of gone wrong. I don't know what they have planned in the future, but again it's probably going to be another classic release and that's just going to make the game feel more dead, uh, in some people's eyes, because it again it's another server, another world of Warcraft to tend to almost say I don't know, it's, it's a tough one. It really is a tough one to um like get into, I guess. But I'm gonna end it off with my thoughts on the undermine.

Speaker 1: 19:21

So the undermine is all right, it's your usual 0.1 patch, and what I mean by the usual 0.1 patch is very much. There's a few bits and bobs to do. It's got a feel of a zone that's heaped with so much lore in it or behind it, with it being the goblins sort of you know home. Essentially, apart from kazan, that obvious uh, that obviously like blew up because of a volcano um, it's, it's tough, the story's good. I like how they're leading into the sort of um raids with these stories.

Speaker 1: 20:01

I am going to check out the raid myself when the story mode releases. I think that was this week or next week. So I am going to check that out because I want to see the raid for myself, I want to see the bosses, I want to see how cool it is and I think that the story mode for the raids, the dungeons and stuff is really really good. I am so proud that they put that back into the game and people need to appreciate this a lot more. They really do, because that is such a good mode to have, um, the story mode, like you can encounter, or you can experience the raid from uh npcs in your group rather than players, because this takes five to ten minutes to do and you get to experience the story, or the ending of the story, um, of the zone, I should say for that uh patch, and I think that this is really good and does help a lot of people to overcome that problem, because people have had that in the past where, yes, they don't get to see the end of the zone because they don't raid. They just simply don't raid. They don't enjoy it. So it's really good that they've put this into the game from the start of the war within, and I'm glad that they're carrying it on.

Speaker 1: 21:12

As for the questing, I think it's solid. I think it's solid, but the look of the zone, I don't like it. I've never liked anything goblin related. I cannot get my head around it. I love the idea of it though. I love the whole. It really encapsulates what goblins are okay entrepreneurs and money makers. They're just trying to. They're quite grubby and smart at the same time. In terms of the gadgetry they make, it really does have a goblin feel, but that's probably the problem with it for me. I just don't like anything that's goblin related. Give me void stuff, give me like light stuff. Give me burning legion stuff. All of that good stuff. Goblin no, not for me. Give me gnome stuff. Give me like night elf or shit, even orcs like stuff like that, because it's just cool. Goblins are just a bit meh. They're they're knockoff gnomes. Come on, let's face it then. Gnomes are just way better than goblins.

Speaker 1: 22:13

Um, overall, I would give the zone itself, with all the quests related and stuff, with all all of the aesthetics, with the raid, I would give it a 6 out of 10. I can't give it more than that, mainly because I just can't. I think that there's a decent amount and, again, I think the drive system really does help it out a bit. I think that the drive system will be very good, but that's going to be a bit tedious to do in the open world. They definitely need to make more stuff where it's like you can um, drift a lot better, in my honest opinion, and control the mount a bit more, because rest of the world of warcraft isn't necessarily going to be built for this. Okay, the the newer zones, the zones that come out after this, will have that in mind, but the ones that are currently in the game, they are not built for it, so might need to adjust a couple things for it. But honestly, it's not bad. I I would say it's a six out of ten. I I think that's a very generous six, genuinely.

Speaker 1: 23:17

Um, I've not done much of the season though, and the season is kind of what impacts my rating on this, because I haven't done a lot of the Mythics, I haven't done a lot of the PvP yet. So we'll see. We'll see how it is balancing wise. All I know is Disprece is kind of busted right now. I know that Destro Lock is kind of broken, but yeah, we will see. We certainly will. But that is it for this episode.

Speaker 1: 23:42

Thank you all very much for listening. Do check out all of the socials down below concert stuff happening over there, as well as the etsy shop multiple things being put up there on a daily basis. I have something else going up there very soon, in the next couple days. It is a very unique weapon from world of warcraft. It is one that may or may not be able to split into two blades. You you might know it, but you know I'll leave that for you to guess. But that's going up there in the next couple of days, so keep an eye on it. Thank you all very much once again and go with Valor friend. Goodbye all. Thank you.