Pig & Whistle Tales - A World of Warcraft Podcast

The PvP Dilemma: Why Your Favorite Class Feels Like a Punching Bag

• Gabriel • Season 5 • Episode 1

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The current state of World of Warcraft PvP highlights several major issues, from class imbalances to reward systems and community behavior. We explore critical forum discussions to uncover where improvements are most needed and how Blizzard might address these challenges.

• Mistweaver Monks struggling significantly in PvP compared to Holy Priests and Resto Druids
• Mistweaver healing relies on multiple modifiers and setup time that isn't practical in fast-paced PvP
• Current PvP reward system lacks compelling incentives, with elite sets being the only worthwhile reward
• Solo Shuffle queue times for DPS players have increased dramatically this season
• Toxic behavior toward healers contributes to healer shortages and longer queue times
• Moonkin defensives are inadequate compared to other ranged classes
• Frenzied Regeneration forces Moonkins to stop dealing damage while using their main defensive
• Suggestion for new Moonkin defensive abilities that wouldn't require sacrificing offensive output

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Speaker 1:

Music. Thank you, hello and welcome to the Pig and Whistle Tales from Azeroth. As always here at the Pig and Whistle Inn in Stormwind, I go for a variety of subjects with regards to World of Warcraft, so grab a bottle or a pint, sit back and enjoy this midweek episode. We'll be going over a few bits and bobs on the forums. We're going to be looking at um pvp. For the most part, we're going to be looking at a lot of um problems people have been facing and dissecting whether these ideas that people might have been bringing up on the forums are good, bad, indifferent, stupid, everything in between. But we will start off with something very, very simple. So, as you know, the PvP season is about halfway through. We're getting there. We are getting there and there have been quite a few changes that have happened recently and these changes are very meta-impacting changes. But there was a lot of changes that happened at the very start of the season and these changes were a massive multitude of things. Now, mistweaver Monks were very much part of these changes and this statement kind of says it all. Okay, misdweaver monks feel like legit beans and cheeks. I don't even ask me where that has come from. I'm getting curb stumped by holy priest, resto druids playing with a quarter of the effort. Yeah, pretty much. So I can relate to this one. Being a Mistweaver monk enjoyer, I really do love playing my Mistweaver monk in PvP, in PvE, and I find that, no matter how much effort I'm putting in, if I'm going against a Holy Priest right now or a Resto Druid, I'm putting in almost double the amount of effort to win these games. And that's just due to number output. Really, in my honest opinion now, druids recently got a few little tweaks in terms of buffs. Well, it's more. Everyone's being nerfed and resto druids got just buffs at the start of this patch and have slowly been getting a power creep, which isn't great. But you know, it is what it is. Holy priests are very prominent right now in the meta. Still, they're very secure as a healing specialization. Same with disc priests. Resto shamans are sort of lower tier um, as well as a couple others. But misaver Monks really are in a bad place at the moment.

Speaker 1:

And the problem with Mistweaver Monks is that the healing output. You need a couple of Globals to initiate this healing output and a lot of it comes from their modifiers. So you have modifiers on your Renewing Mists, your Enveloping Mists, as well as your Zen spheres to increase, or spheres to increase the healing done to the target. So zen fears, zen sphere oh my god. Um, it does 10 extra healing on the target. Your renewing mist does 50 increased healing, I believe, um, and that is for eight seconds when you first put it on the target, and developing miss is a 40% increased heal on the target when you apply it to them. Now, these all add up quite a lot, but if you do not have these modifiers, it's very tough to get these going. And the thing is, if you press renewing this, it's not a big heal. It really isn't at the time of doing it. Um, so you need a couple of bits and pieces to get going.

Speaker 1:

But the big thing about these classes and why they're better is because, yes, monks have cooldowns the same as any other healing spec, rest of druidsids and H-Priests. It's more. H-priests have an insane and absurd amount of healing output, as well as cooldowns that can stop damage entirely to a certain degree, because Ray of Hope stops the target's health, but they do 50% increased healing to the target and over six seconds you should be able to out-heal it as a holy priest. You also have Guardian Spirit, which increases your healing by a dramatic amount every minute. You have multiple cooldowns, such as PI, that can also help the team offensively. Now, don't get me wrong, monk also has these sort of tools to use, but you're pulling yourself in very much harm's way in order to utilize these tools song of chiji, paralyzed leg sweep, etc.

Speaker 1:

Um, as for resto druid, they have loads of heals over time. So if you get cc'd but you have hots rolling on people, it's really not that big of a deal. As well, as you have damage reduction cooldowns, and the damage reduction being the big one, because monks have life cocoon, which is a big shield, very big shield, but you can only put it on one person. Obviously, that's what most cooldowns do, and your three minute cooldown is actually kind of your worst cooldown um that you have, and I don't mean that in any sarcastic way. Uh, revival slash restoral is probably the worst cooldown that you have.

Speaker 1:

Um, this is due to it honestly just not healing enough. It really is underwhelming. When it comes to a heal, you have to get a big crit or you have to have all of your modifiers up and again. Having these modifiers up if you're cc'd is very unlikely, because you want, um it's sort of a panic button to press. It's like, oh shit, we need a cooldown, let's pop this. It's not like, oh yeah, just let me get all of my like um modifiers up, my healing modifiers, and then, like, pop it. That's not how that works, really it's. It's a bit of an underwhelming button to press, but you know it is what it is.

Speaker 1:

So I would like them to see about maybe changing how mistweaver plays, maybe just buffing it a tiny bit. But I know that it's going to be difficult because misweavers has very, very good healing output alone, but they aren't utilized in pvp because you aren't just going to be casting the entire time. You can't be a fist weaving monk in pvp and get full up time. Okay, you're going to get cc'd, you're going to get slowed, you're going to get whatever it might be. So they really need to look at changing Mistweaver in terms of healing output. If they want it to be a pure healing, then fine, do that. Or if they want it to be more engaging in terms of the rotation, just needs to be a bit more streamlined. It shouldn't rely on all of these healing modifiers that you can put on the target where you need to use three different um, like global cooldowns, before actually being able to heal someone. It is a bit ridiculous, but that one is a very short one. I just wanted to get that off my chest, being a pvp or a misweaver player in my own right.

Speaker 1:

The next one better pvp rewards. I think that, no matter what, there should be better pvp rewards. Um, there's always no reason to play pvp current. Currently it seems you can either sit 25 minute queues in uh battleground blitz or solo shuffle. Sit three to five minute queues in threes that's only if you get lucky enough to find a team, um, or you can pace around dawn a goal. Yeah, kind of true bad rewards equals no one cares. The tabard is lame illusion, are unusable, mount is ugly and visually impossible to get until four months in and virtually impossible. Okay, the only great part is elite sets. Elite sets are very cool. Pvp needs a reward overhaul making healing worth it.

Speaker 1:

If you're a healer, glad is wins above 2.2 or put the mount in solo shuffle. We need something. I want pvp, but I don't want to sit 30 minutes solo shuffle queues or queue into awc teams five minutes into a queue because they can't find anyone. Um, my MMR in threes. Look I'm, it's ridiculous. So, firstly, yes, the reward system does need an overhaul.

Speaker 1:

I think that this will allow more participation in PvP, and I would like to see that. I don't think you should ever put glad wins above 2.2. I think that that is ridiculous. Glad has always been 2.4 and above. You get 50 wins above 2.4, that's your gladiator title. That's the way it's always been. What they can do, though, though, is inject some mmr into the actual meta, or have a overwatch system, like I said, where they basically you have a scale of one to four thousand rating, and you just simply climb or go down this rating based on if you win or lose. It's very simple, doesn't need any sort of injection to the MMR system. It just stays that way the entire season. That way, people can monitor their kind of success in the game and see if they are gaining rating, losing rating, etc. Etc. It's really good that way, um.

Speaker 1:

As for shuffle queues and queues in general, if you don't want to wait for queues, go healer yourself. It's that simple. There is a more demand for healers than ever in solo shuffles in any sort of pvp content, because people complain about to healers in solo shuffle. If you queue up as a healer and you have never been told oh my god, what the fuck are you doing like? Why are you not saving in there? Or you're not the one who's ever been blamed. If you've played over 100 rounds, let's say, of solo shuffle, then you're very, very lucky. You are part of the 0.0001 that has not been flamed by the dps. So go heal yourself and you will get instant queues. It's that simple. I get that you want to play your like main, which is a priest, by the way, according to this um forum post. So this guy literally has two healer specs, but I bet he plays shadow. So you know each to their own.

Speaker 1:

But if you are playing dps, you need to accept that these queues are going to be longer, and obviously they're going to be longer the higher that you are queuing for um or the higher mmr that you're going to be. So it's one of them things and you just kind of have to accept it. It's a bit shit, but it is what it is. But I definitely think that they need to overhaul what the pvp rewards. I think that some of them have been kind of outdated and I would like them to see, or at least just get some like cosmetics, more cosmetics, like maybe a couple of them like tier set looks or something, or just kind of like how they did with um plunder storm kind of a renowned system you can buy what you want with a certain currency or with honor, you know. Anything like this would be really, really useful to the game, to be honest, and yeah, I just think that like it's needed, it really does need an overhaul when it comes to the reward system in pvp. Even if it just brings in more people participating, it would be a really, really good idea.

Speaker 1:

So, moving to the next one, why solo shuffle queues are longer for dps this season? I think it's because a lot of pvps are taking a break from wow until the last two weeks of the season and are probably focusing on other games like marvel rivals or even classic sod, or maybe trying out other games like league of legos. So solar shuffle queues are always going to be long, um, and this is partly true because of end of season. A lot of people hop in to the end of season to get their rewards, to push whatever they want to, etc. Etc. But a lot of it is due to people being dickheads.

Speaker 1:

So again, if you have a dps that flames a healer and is like what are you doing? You need to get good, like, uninstall the game. And then that healer does uninstall because they don't want to deal with that bullshit. And then suddenly that DPS player is like, oh my God, where are the healers? At Like, you are the reason, a healer has left the game, kind of deal, and now you're complaining that there are no healers.

Speaker 1:

So be civil, be actually smart and understand that these are human beings. It's a game. Enjoy the game. Stop crying about something so stupid. Okay, look, I get frustrated. I'm super competitive at WoW as well. I get ridiculously frustrated when it comes to anything pvp related, pve related, whatever it might be. I'm a competitive person, but it doesn't allow you to just start flaming people on a game because they might just be enjoying their day and you don't have any right to ruin that. They might be having the worst day ever and and they come on WoW just to try and escape something and you've just made it worse. What's the point? What is the point of that? Because it's not helping anyone, it's not helping you, it's not helping them, it's just redundant, it's stupid and, yeah, I don't know. It's absolutely crazy that people complain about something that they are causing or they themselves are the problem of like healer, shortages in solo shuffle and stuff like that participation essentially. But this is also correct. People do just wait until the end of the season to compete for their titles, for whatever they might be going for in that season. There's nothing new about that at all.

Speaker 1:

Moving on to one that I find very kind of, uh, close to my heart design a new defensive for moonkins. Already the spec dies to everything and is literally only playable with an outlaw rogue, a complete punching bag. Stop spam buffing, frenzy, regen it, it doesn't do anything. Give the spec an actual button to press and not die when healer is in CC. Rootbeam is useless. Mobility Rootbeam is useless. Mobility is zero. Oh, rootbeam is useless, okay, it just isn't. Well, it kind of is. If you just pick a gnome, mobility is zero and bark skin is a meme. Bark skin's all right. Give moonkin a real mobility or defensive spell to survive getting ran down. You gave ellie a shield and burrow in the last two expansions. What did moonkin get? Has moonkin gotten literally anything new and useful in the past? That in the last three expansions for pvp.

Speaker 1:

So, um, there's a couple things to moonkin defensives. The biggest issue with moonkin defensives frenzy is good. Frenzy is a good defensive, but you will always have the problem of having to go into bare form to utilize it and get the most out of it. Um, so the reason that this is bad is because, bare form, you can do literally nothing else apart from sit in bare form and heal yourself, and that is about four seconds of downtime, so you're just getting hit for these four seconds and doing nothing back. And the reason that this is bad is because, yes, you are healing, you are popping your defensive, but if you look at everyone else's defensive blur, dark pact uh, I forget it. Is it called unstable resolve? Yeah, and something, resolve for uh warlocks.

Speaker 1:

You have die by the sword, frenzy regen, not frenzy regen, frenzy regeneration for warriors I think that was what it was called. Um, you have the paladin wall. You have windwalker karma, diffuse magic. You have survival of the fittest you exit. You have exhilaration. Um, all of these are defensive abilities, but you can do stuff and damage. You could do your full damage rotation whilst these uh cooldowns are on you and they are being utilized. Okay, and this is the problem, because in bear form, you are so, so useless, way too useless. Um, if you look at mage, you have alter time barrier.

Speaker 1:

Now, again, they have immunities as well, and these immunities, yes, they can't cast anything, but they are immune to damage, and that's a lot bigger than, say, a boomkin being in a boomy spec and having a little bit more armor kind of deal. It's not the same really. Now they do need something. Feral Druids got survival instincts, which is huge. You could do something like Elune's Protection or something as a cooldown, and what this is is a simple, it's another wall. Essentially it's a 30 percent wall, we'll say that. Or you could do it as a moonfire. Having moonfire on the target means that they deal 10 less damage to you. You know something like that. That might be good.

Speaker 1:

Now, 10 is insane, but you can play around with the numbers and this will help overall, because you are just a target dummy a lot of the time, for, like, you're just a punching bag. You're a giant chicken punching bag and it's not fun because, yes, you'll say, oh, you have wild charge, just leap away from them. So okay, so you use wild charge and then what the warrior charges you, okay, that's fine, because now I'll typhoon him away. But guess what? He has a second charge. Okay, that's fine, then I will stampeding roar away, um, going into bear form, not doing any damage and just running away and using about three globals. I use stampeding roar and then then Boomkin Form to get back into Boomy Form and then I can start my dots again and my damage. Okay, that's fine, I got away from him. Oh no, he's Heroic Lepton to me.

Speaker 1:

So the defensives that you have aren't really defensives. You have Auto-Proc Frenzy, but again, not being in bear form is really rough for these frenzy procs. That's not great. And then you have obviously bark skin. Bark skin is actually a very, very good cooldown. Bark skin is 30% now damage reduction, I believe, if you take the talent in the bottom left, and you also have increased healing received when you have bark skin up. So it's actually a very effective um cooldown, but again, it's not the best. You don't look at bark skin and go okay, we're not going to kill him through this, let's switch um, switch character. You know kind of deal. You're like yeah, it's going to be a bit tougher, but we can definitely make it work, kind of deal.

Speaker 1:

So all I'm hoping for Blizzard, please, if you're listening is to just give Moonkins any form of defensive. I would love it. It would be absolutely amazing. I would really appreciate it coming from me, coming from all boomies out there. It'd be really really nice. But that is where I will end it for this episode. Thank you all very much for listening. Do check out all of the socials down below Constant stuff happening as well as multiple things going on. The Etsy shop constantly have Helmer, domination up there, frostmore and Chalamain All of these IRL sort of life-size weapons. They're really, really cool and I'm really proud of them all. So do check them out if you can. But thank you all very much once again and go avala friend. Goodbye all. Thank you.