All We Ask For Is Communication PvP is in a sorry state

The matchmaking rating system in World of Warcraft PvP has become a frustrating obstacle for players who genuinely love competitive gameplay. As ratings have deflated by nearly 1,000 points since Shadowlands, achievements that were once attainable now feel impossibly distant for many dedicated players. The current system essentially punishes early-season participation, creating a barren landscape where queue times grow longer and matchmaking becomes increasingly unbalanced.

Why struggle against multi-gladiator opponents at 2200 rating when waiting until season's end means facing less skilled opponents at the same rating? This perverse incentive structure has created a vicious cycle: fewer players participate during most of the season, leading to worse matchmaking, which further discourages participation. Even as someone who climbed to Gladiator in Shadowlands, I find myself facing significantly more challenging competition at lower ratings in the current environment.

What's particularly disheartening is the stark contrast between PvE and PvP development. Each patch brings new raids, dungeon rotations, and features like Delves, while PvP receives minimal attention. When new patches are announced, competitive play often merits mere seconds of discussion before moving on to PvE content. Even community resources like Wowhead provide extensive class guides that completely omit PvP considerations.

The solution could be as simple as adopting systems that have proven successful in other competitive games. An Overwatch-style rating structure with clear thresholds for achievements would encourage consistent participation throughout the season and make alt play more appealing. But more than any specific change, what the PvP community truly desires is communication – some acknowledgment that our concerns are being heard and considered.

Hope you all enjoy and hope you relate to any of these stories. And I will speak to you all in the next episode!

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Chapters

• 0:00 PvP Problems in World of Warcraft
• 2:43 The Broken MMR System
• 9:30 Proposed Solutions: Overwatch Ranking System
• 14:31 PvP Neglect vs. PvE Development
• 19:25 Call for Better Communication

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:45

The do. Hello and welcome to the Pig and Whistle Tales from Azeroth. As always here at the Pig and Whistle Inn in Stormwind, I go for a variety of subjects with regards to World of Warcraft. I've got a bottle or a pint. Sit back and enjoy this midweek episode. We're going to be going over something that I feel as if it's coming more and more of a problem in wow and it's something that I, or that impacts me a lot, and I know that impacts quite a few other people, but it's one of the more obscure things. Not obscure, it's one of the more neglected side of things in world of warcraft. In my honest opinion, and I think, the opinion of a lot of other people, uh, if I had to, well, say really, and that is pvp as a whole, okay, as a whole. Um, firstly, before I get into this, I do want to apologize, um, about no episode on friday and I'm gonna really try and keep going through this episode. But if my voice does get a bit crackly or a bit awful, uh, just gonna have to bear with it. I do apologize and I will try and push through for you guys. I'm going to dive straight into this. I don't know how long this will be. It could be short, it could be quite long. I want to get these points across and I don't want to sort of ramble on it, because I want these points very firm, very fast, and I want them to be basically laid out in a way that people understand it and hopefully it will get the problems that we as sort of a WoW or PvP community have. So there's a few main issues with PvP as a whole right now, and the biggest one is the MMR and just participation in general, to be honest. So MMR, the way that the MMR system works in PvP is that you start off on a scale and this scale throughout the season will gradually increase. Okay, so you are able to hit new highs at the towards the back end of the season because they are gradually increasing the sort of maximum mmr that is in the game. Okay, and this is a fine way of doing it. I guess it's fine for 2007, when arenas was released.

Speaker 1: 3:24

The problem with it today is that everyone obviously doesn't play it like during the season, because they always think why should I play it during the season when I can get the rewards that I want, or at least attempt towards the back end of the season for a lot less effort, basically, basically a lot less effort on their part, and this is completely fair as well. People need to, or people don't want to, sit there at the start of a season and play the exact same way as how they'll play at the end of the season, but the only difference is that there's MMR injected into the back end of the season, meaning that they are two, three, four hundred rating higher than what they were at the start. Because what's the point of that? There's no point in playing at the start unless you're just playing for fun, which you should be. I do emphasize that people should be playing it for fun, but some people don't do emphasize that people should be playing it for fun, but some people don't. Some people do play it just for the literal rewards, and these rewards come in many different forms. You can reach a personal goal, whether it be a certain rating. You can get the transmogs for getting to 1800, you can get glad mounts if you really needed or wanted at 2400, but essentially there is no point in playing at the start of the season, and a lot of pvps know this. So during that season it's very quiet, okay, and for those who actually want to enjoy playing throughout the season and just enjoy playing the game in general.

Speaker 1: 5:04

This is me. Like me and myself, I enjoy playing just because I enjoy the pvp aspect. It is resulting in less people in looking for group, it's resulting in longer queue times and it's resulting in unfair matchmaking sometimes because you have teams that are higher mmr, mmr that are queuing into people who are completely different skill levels. Basically. So if you're in a five-minute queue at 2200, let's say, then you're going to be paired with someone who is an 1800 team and that's no fun to either of the teams because, realistically, the 2200 Mr team should beat the 1800 quite reasonably easily, let's say um, so mmr is a big issue right now and the problem that the player base has had in the past is that mmr has genuinely generally been quite high.

Speaker 1: 6:03

Okay, now many people have done videos on this, but the MMR back in Shadowlands, legion stuff like this you're looking at 3600 I think some people got up to it was about 3.6k that now that peak has gone down by a thousand. Okay, because rank one is about 3600 back in Shadowlands or something. It was somewhere around there. If you're looking at rank one. Right now you're looking at 26, probably to 2,800, somewhere around that mark. I know that that's quite a big area of you know maneuverability, but it is what it is, I think, what they need. They want this to be the new normal, but the thing is, a lot of the rewards at 2400 are almost impossible to get because the way that you're facing people is impossible to push past them.

Speaker 1: 7:03

Okay, now I think of myself as a better player than what I was in Shutterlands and I managed to get a glad mount in Shutterlands. It wasn't that tough, everyone got one, basically because the season was quite inflated. Now, herein lies the problem. I'm still doing very well. I'm getting close to glad constantly or consistently. But because the MMR and the rating has dipped so much, every single game I am playing against rank one or like multi glad players and I'm not a multi glad. All right, I'm not a multi glad or rank one. I'm a very good player, but I've never been at that sort of level and I can compete with them.

Speaker 1: 7:43

But having to do this game in, game out, when, like you're at 22, 2300, trying to push that 24 it's, it feels like so much of a drag, but the thing is, I enjoy it. Okay, don't get me wrong, I enjoy them sort of games where you're really like going up against it and it's a really close game. Other people, they they play to hit a certain threshold, and this threshold being oh, I've got my transmog, I don't have to do PvP anymore. Oh, I've got my glad mount, I don't have to do PvP anymore. Some people hit that threshold and are like, yeah, that's me done, I'm quite happy with that, I just play because it's fun.

Speaker 1: 8:22

But this leads me on to the next point. This is why people don't play, because these sort of of what they called landmarks, almost these achievements that you need to get your transmog, to get your glad mount, have become a lot harder to obtain because the mmr system is so messed up and this means that there is lower participation, because the people who are more casual, who can boost up that mmr, do not play because it's too much of a grinder to do and it's just quite sad really, because you do have people quitting and just coming back at the end of the season, because that's what the mmr system is incentivizing. It's incentivizing you to go oh yeah, let's just play at the back end of the season, because there is no real point in like doing anything else. That's when the season is most inflated. That's when you're going to get the most luck and your highest ever peak in that season most likely, because, obviously, all of the MMR that's been injected now I definitely think that they need to move to a new system.

Speaker 1: 9:30

Okay, this new system, whether it be something completely different or a reiteration of the current one, needs to happen. I don't think that they, throughout the season, should inject MMR into the season. I think it's very outdated. I think it's an awful idea nowadays, because people know how it works and they're just like, oh, okay, I'll come back in five months time when the next patch comes out. You know it's absolutely ridiculous.

Speaker 1: 9:58

So I think that there should be and I've said this many times before either a overwatch system where it's okay, you have zero to 5,000 rating, you can push it whenever you want. When you hit this threshold, you're a gladiator. When you hit this threshold, you're a combatant. When you hit this threshold, you're a rival. You know that sort of deal and people can just do it how they want. They can do that how they want, and this would translate over to solo shuffle as well. I think you just go with the Overwatch sort of system because it's very simple, people can understand it and you have them goals constantly that you're looking at and there is no oh, I'll wait until end of season to do it Like, yes, people will still wait until the end of season to play more and to push rewards that you might need, such as to get glad, you need 50 wins above a certain rating, which is 2.4k.

Speaker 1: 10:51

Such as to get glad you need 50 wins above a certain rating, which is 2.4k. Um, so people would wait until then, but there would be more overall participation throughout the season and there will be more people who are willing to try and jump in and give it a go throughout the season as well, because that way they actually have something that they can't aim for, whether it's a oh yeah, let's go for a rival or let's go for a combatant rank. You know you can see these things and it's like, yeah, I can probably hit that, I'll give it a good go. Um, and then rank ones can obviously push at the end of the season instead of like, oh, you have to be this sort of rating to be rank one, it's very much. Just do it percentage based. That way, it keeps the incentive of people constantly having to push. It's like, oh shit, I don't know if I'm actually a rank one because these people are winning their games, so I might need to play another one to secure this kind of deal, and it keeps pushing it. It keeps pushing each other, which is really good.

Speaker 1: 11:45

Instead, if the system goes, oh yeah, you're about top 10, and it's like like, oh OK, well, let me just see, you can throw it all in on like a website now, probably Drustvar and you could probably just go yeah, that's rank one, cool, don't need to play. You know it makes you worry and it makes you constantly think OK, do I have to? Ok, let's, let's give it a go. I need to try one more game to win it to. You know, secure my rank one, or something like that. So I don't know, look, tell me if that one's wrong. People who are rank one players, because I've never been rank one and I genuinely want to know if that's probably a better way of doing it or if the current version is just better. Um, I could be completely wrong in that regard. But look, they need to shuffle up the entire MMR system. I think. Just go with an Overwatch system or you go with.

Speaker 1: 12:37

To be honest, the Overwatch system seems like the best one in this from what I can think of at the top of my head. There's probably better ones. I mean, the Overwatch one is very much a system that's used in many games. League of Legends uses, I think, a very similar system and they have had that since the dawn of time. You probably would need to correct me if I'm wrong with that, but I'm guessing they've had that since the dawn of League of Legends and that they've had that ranking system. So these are proven to do well, and overwatch is the only game where I think it injects mmr throughout the season very slowly. Okay, I think it's the only game that comes to mind. There could be something else, but I think every game has a set ranking system and it's like yep, bronze is your floor and grandmaster is your ceiling. Enjoy, you know. Just go out there, get what you need and earn points to go up this ranking system.

Speaker 1: 13:41

Basically, it needs to change. The oh the wow system for pvp needs to change because, firstly, this would incentivize people playing alts as well. I would say are going to be a lot more friendly if this system is in place, because it's very much okay, I can get gladiator on my main. I'm gonna try and aim for a rival on my alt. You know, a brand new alt, never played before, new spec. Let me aim for that. Okay, cool, I've got that. So I've, you know, got the cosmetics. Now let's try and aim for a glad on it. You know why not? Let's just try. You know, go all the way. So it's going to offer a lot more participation throughout the season for a lot of people and I think that this is what's going to be a lot better.

Speaker 1: 14:25

The problem that I always have with PvP is that I feel like it gets overlooked. When you have an MMO that is so big and it's been around for 20 plus years, you need constant stimulation and change with the game, and this stimulation and change with the game happens in PvE. But in PvP we are given a couple of balance changes and that is kind of it and it's a little bit upsetting. It's really upsetting, to be honest. Yes, we get the odd battleground, we get the odd arena map, cage of carnage. I'm not gonna lie, I don't like it. I don't think a lot of people enjoy the new arena map. I think it's just a shrunken Blades Edge arena. I'm really sorry, but I just don't like it personally as a boomy, as a cast domain, anything like that. Um, battlegrounds again we got a new battleground this expansion, but a lot of people aren't looking at that and being like yep, that's fine, that will suit us for the next year or two, year and a half.

Speaker 1: 15:32

You know it doesn't work like that, whereas every single patch pve is I will always say this a new set of dungeons, like dungeon rotation. So for mythics, a new raid. Every single major patch, always a new raid with new bosses, with new mechanics, all of that shebang. You get delves. Now delves are being more updated than pvp. I think delves have had more updates than pvp has its entire life. I swear to god it is.

Speaker 1: 16:04

I think in pvp we are given very few updates that are game changing. Okay, the last game changing well, I say game changing addition to pvp was they added a lever. Okay, this lever in the starting room of an arena map. Everyone in the arena needs to pull this lever and the countdown will start from 10. I have never seen that been used. Okay, it has never been used in since its release like a year and a half ago, never seen it. So you know, great addition there. Look, I'm spiraling out there, but I would like to see more definitive pvp changes. Okay, I don't care if the meta stays what it is until next year. What I think a lot of people would want right now is a update on if there is going to be any changes with pvp with regards to an mmr system, because this is the biggest problem right now that mmr system. And look, if you're not going to change anything, fine, but please, we need information.

Speaker 1: 17:19

We are very, very, very much in the dark about pvp and when this is the best way to describe it when liberation of the undermined was coming out, there was a sit down and a sort of um interview type thing for, uh, the patch itself. So they sit down, a couple of them were on the panel and they basically go okay, so this is what's happening. Oh, what about this, what about this? When they said pvp, the only thing that was said was it yep, there's a new arena map. That that was basically all they said, and then they went on to the next. They had about 20 seconds of saying about pvp and then nothing, and then it's just oh yeah, this new raid, oh yeah, these new dungeons, these new delves like pvps need something, because we are fine with not getting a lot.

Speaker 1: 18:17

We understand that pvp isn't the main focus of world of warcraft, but you have so many people who do play pvp and are big advocates for it. You have supertease, venruki well, peekaboo, when he's not playing league of legends anymore absterge you have so many of these people who are like actually playing in awc as well. You have waz raiku. You have all of these pro players that stream pvp, but it's such a tough thing to keep going because there is no additions to it a lot at the time, and a new mmr system would allow it to be constantly fresh throughout the season, in my opinion, and something that is drastically needed. It's drastically needed of overhaul, and all that I'm asking is that we have some information, like going forward, because that is the most important thing. I just want communication with regards to pvp, and I think a lot of other people would want that as well, because that we get very little. Okay, we get very, very little.

Speaker 1: 19:22

We get a load of stuff about like pve, and I think a big advocate for this is wowhead. So pve wise. Wowhead has everything. Well, hand has a bit of pvp. But throughout the past, like week or two, they've been doing these posts about the specializations of classes and it's a balanced truid, frost, dk, subtlety, rogue.

Speaker 1: 19:46

Okay, they write massive page about season one, season two, how it felt, what the talents were, all of it, and there is nothing, there is not an inkling of pvp on there. In that entire section there is no pvp. So I would like, if they had someone who does pvp, to have a section on there. Uh, for god's sake, I'll do it if you need to. I really don't mind. But like there needs to be someone who can showcase that on one of probably the biggest platforms that world of warcraft has to offer in wowhead, because you get all of this writing basically saying oh yeah, pve, you know uh, keeper of the grove, amazing in um. You know raids, whereas a loon's chosen was the uh spec that you took for mythic plus. And there is nothing about pvp, absolutely nothing.

Speaker 1: 20:43

And you have these segments in that like sort of block where it's like what we would like to see, the um patch or the next patch or season three, and it's like, okay, well, none of this will change pvp. Actually that's an awful change for pvp, the thing that you've mentioned there. So I kind of need to, like you, know if they make this change it's really going to affect pvp is, but no one ever thinks of that. It's always, oh yeah, pve it's for pve, pve, pve, but there is no pvp, say. And the thing is there are people who are talking about pvp, like the people that I mentioned ven, you have super t's, you have all of these different people who specialize in pvp within world of warcraft. They do dabble in pve, don't get me wrong, but it feels like everything that's said doesn't necessarily get seen, and that's the sad thing.

Speaker 1: 21:36

If we had a little bit of communication, it would be a lot better. That's all we're asking for, I think, on the pvp side a bit more communication on if there is anything that is in the works, because we will take anything at all. We will take. Oh yeah, there's 10 new like arena maps and we're going to literally cycle through all of them. Okay, so it's like this week we're going to have the first 50 or 10 maps, next week next 10, that kind of deal, and I'm fine.

Speaker 1: 22:03

I was fine with the map rotation. I thought the map rotation was very good. I get that some people didn't play and you probably saw weekly drop-offs in participation because, um, people didn't have certain maps during that week, but I think that's just ridiculous. Um, I think that if you change the mmr system along with a map rotation, I think it would incentivize people to play more alts, because it's like oh okay, this is more of a week where casters are favored. Okay, I'm going to hop onto my mage instead of my main, which is a warrior this week. You know, this is what needs to happen. This is what people need to think, rather than just oh okay, it's not our map pool week, so we're not going to play. You know that that seems ridiculous. Give people the incentive to log over to an alt and make it a bit easier to do so, because, yeah, trying to farm all of them bloodstones is a bit of a kick in the balls. It really is okay, but that is where I'm going to end it for this episode.

Speaker 1: 23:07

Thank you for listening to me. Just rant there. Look, if anyone manages to hear this from PvP standpoint, from Wowhead, from Blizzard anywhere, please try and get it out there. Like, pvpers don't get a lot. So all we're asking for is a little bit of communication or a little bit of info on what might be happening, stuff like that. So please do share it, get out there as best you can. But thank you all very much for listening. Excuse me and go eval a friend, take care all Thank you.