Pig & Whistle Tales - A World of Warcraft Podcast

Should Challenge Mode Rewards Return Through Classic?

• Gabriel • Season 5 • Episode 14

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The long-standing divide between PvP and PvE content in World of Warcraft creates a troubling imbalance that leaves competitive players feeling overlooked and undervalued. This midweek episode dives deep into the systemic problems facing WoW's PvP scene, particularly the outdated rating system that paradoxically punishes players as they improve. With significantly reduced MMR injection compared to previous years, even skilled veterans watch their ratings plummet despite playing better than ever.

What makes this situation particularly frustrating is watching other competitive formats like Solo Shuffle receive proper attention while arena players are left behind. The stark contrast becomes even more apparent when you consider content creation – PvE enthusiasts enjoy new raids with every major patch, while PvP players might receive one or two arena maps across an entire expansion cycle. This systematic neglect demands greater community awareness and developer communication.

The episode also explores fascinating player suggestions, including the possibility of unlocking Challenge Mode rewards from Mists of Pandaria Classic in retail WoW. Items like the stunning Cloudsong Glaive remain some of the most sought-after transmogs in the game's history, and creating a path to earn them through challenging Classic content could bridge the gap between WoW's past and present. We also dissect the flawed concept of a hypothetical "WoW 2" and why abandoning two decades of continuous development makes little sense for an evolving MMO. Whether you're a dedicated PvPer feeling forgotten or simply interested in the game's development philosophy, this episode offers thought-provoking perspectives on where World of Warcraft has been and where it should go next. 

Hope you all enjoy and hope you relate to any of these stories. And I will speak to you all in the next episode!

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Speaker 1:

The Thank you. Hello, and welcome to the Pig and Whistle Tales from Azeroth. As always here at the Pig and Whistle Inn in Stormwind, I go for a variety of subjects With regards to World of Warcraft. A grububber bottle or a pint, sit back and enjoy this midweek episode. We're going to be going over a few different things within wow and we are going to once again be going over the pvp sort of debate and, for future reference, I will be going over the pvp stuff every single episode. Okay, because the main reason for it is that I don't believe people speak about it, but it can get overlooked by a lot of other things, and pp is in a very sorry state, uh, sometimes when it comes to wow. So just raising awareness for it is something that I would like to do, as it is the most enjoyable part of WoW that I prefer and I get that it's not what everyone's sort of bread and butter is within the game, but I believe that PvP gets looked at a lot less than PvE, so hence why I would like to try and get that point across of what I've been trying to do so in the past few weeks. That's all, really, but we will be starting off with a couple of forum posts. Now, these are very common on the channel and I try and find multiple avenues of forum posts, but these ones are interesting, we'll say and I'm going to be giving my opinions on it. I'm going to be giving my opinion on it, I'm going to be giving my opinion on if it's silly, smart, stupid, funny, all of that. Uh, this is my opinion. You might differ from that and that is completely fine. But this is the first post.

Speaker 1:

Strong idea make old versions of wow mop now, uh, semi-linked with retail, and I haven't read this fully. I never read them fully. That way you can get my sort of general reaction. But I read the first line or the title, and I thought, yeah, this is actually got a strong potential. So here we go by that. I mean some people really return to cry about no longer obtainable things from challenges, which I personally don't have Mop or WOD and I'm okay with it never returning because it would kill challenge concepts as a whole in the game, as people wouldn't do this if they knew it would be back for free in a few years, if they knew it would be back for free in a few years, while challenge concept as content is healthy and good for the game to keep subs and additional content, there are some people who will always cry about it because they want everything for no reason. So what he is talking about is the challenge modes within Warlords of Draenor and Mists of Pandaria.

Speaker 1:

In Mists of Pandaria, challenge modes were brought into the dungeon pool and these are a very early iteration of Mythic Plus dungeons basically. So it's very much you run a specific dungeon and the specific dungeon. If you beat it within 13 minutes, you got a gold medal. If you beat it within 15, you got silver, 17, bronze, etc. And this allowed you to purchase certain items. If you managed to do every single dungeon as gold, you know, complete it with a gold timer, and these items are very lucrative, the biggest one being this is something that I've always wanted Cloudsong Glaive. Now Cloudsong Glaive came out in Warlords of Draenor and what it is is a giant blue glaive, but the look of it is so amazing and it really playing a boomkin. Your weapon is kind of lost when you turn into the giant chicken form, and this is a very prominent weapon in that form. So it's one that I've always wanted and I'm hoping that they actually allow you to transfer it into retail when wallets of drain or uh classic comes out. Inevitably it is going to come out. I believe that uh classic will end with legion. I believe that is where the ending will uh be for classic and it will either revert back to classic, classic, classic um, or it will go all the way uh just to keep following the expansions.

Speaker 1:

People might want to play shadowlands, people might want to play uh bfa. You know I I highly doubt it, but it could happen. That's the thing, um, but yeah, we'll carry on with this. Here is the solution to that. Since you now release mop and it costs nothing to play it, it's enough to have retail slash sub. Okay, um, it's perfect time and only fair solution to regain old challenge stuff. I. I think that it is a good point. Um number one never delete version of games from now. Um, excuse me, mop plus, always keep at least one server, okay, since it's almost identical uh as it previously was, with return of these challenges.

Speaker 1:

After obtaining it in a wow mob, uh, make it being unlocked in retail too, possibly to buy. If you did not did that on wow mob, okay, yeah, so I think that if you completed the challenge within. Wow, uh, missa pandaria. Uh, classic, missa pandaria. I think you should have the option to buy the weapons um that you unlock and I think that this should be a decent gold price, maybe 10, 50k, 100k. That way, you still have to pay for it um, on retail, but because you completed it in missa pandaria, does that make sense? I think you can maybe do something like that, or you can simply just you did it in missa pandaria classic, so you get it, but I feel like you should still have a little bit of a gold uh sink into it, because these weapons are cool. These weapons are very unique and very cool, so to have to have that gold sink as well is still a bit more of a lucrative thing than anything um this. This is only reasonable and acceptable thing to do, and people who want to it's so bad will have their way to obtain it anytime. Just require them to do the same challenge as people previously had to obtain it. Everyone should be happy at this point.

Speaker 1:

I think that this is a good post. I think that people should be allowed to obtain the challenger modes within Mists of Pandaria Classic and then unlock them via retail, because your account is linked. It is one account. If you have a sub for retail, you can play Classic World of Warcraft, and I think that by completing stuff in Classic you should be able to unlock it in retail from Mists of Pandaria onwards. Stuff in classic, you should be able to unlock it in retail from missa pandaria onwards.

Speaker 1:

Now I get why you can't unlock uh classic items atiesh, uh, benediction and athema, these sort of transmogs. It's because they are no longer in the game. Um, although I guess you actually could, because on tournament realms you actually do have a plethora of like, uh well, everything that has been in the game and they are still in the game file, so maybe you could. But at the same time, I just know that it's going to be an easier transfer, transferable thing when it comes to coding, most likely because mr pandaria is a lot closer to retail than what Classic was. Therefore, it allows for easier sort of transferable stuff. I would imagine that could just be completely inaccurate and wrong, but I would imagine that's going to be an easier task. It still wouldn't be an easy task, though, so I actually agree with this.

Speaker 1:

I think that it is a very solid argument and I think that you could make the argument for having misa pandaria, uh, like unlockable stuff, the challenge modes uh, if you were to do it in misa pandaria, I think that you should be allowed to get it in retail. I I do agree with this and it's not often that I agree with a forum post, but I believe that it should happen and it's that, or you should be able to do it within like a different time maybe, because what people can do is obviously buy boosts, so maybe you'd have to do it on a couple different characters or, yeah, something along them lines. That way, you've proven that it is you that can do it. Again, you can just buy the boost, boost for multiple characters, but it will cost people more and more gold and stuff like that. Um, but I think that it's not a bad idea and it's something that I hope they bring into warlords of draenor and missa pandaria going forward uh, the classic versions anyway, because I would love to be able to do the missa pandaria and the warlords of draenor, uh, challenge dungeons. I would love to be able to do the Mists of Pandaria and the Warlords of Draenor challenge dungeons. I would love to be able to do them, to experience them, as I never did. The first dungeon experiences I had was Legion with Mythic Plus, that I also really just want the artifact appearance, not the artifact appearance, the challenger mode appearance. I think that it's one of the coolest appearances in the game and it's one that I would treasure and use for the rest of the game, like the rest of when I play the game, because I just think that it is really really cool and something that I would treasure.

Speaker 1:

Now people are obviously going to be upset about this. People are going to be a bit more angry or upset or pissed off because it's like oh well, I earned it back in 2012 whenever Mists of Pandaria came out. This is ridiculous. And it's like, yeah, ok, but you've had it for 13 years now. You've had it for a very long time.

Speaker 1:

Yes, these things are very prestigious, but it's not like everyone will be able to get them, because you've still got to level up your mr pandaria character. You've still got to be able to gear up that character and then do dungeons on that character. And not even do dungeons. You've got to time them to a gold level uh, like gold medal. So it isn't an easy task and there is time and investment that's needed in it. I don't know how tough the like the timers were to hit Becky. Mr Pandaria, I'll obviously be able to see that when I myself do them in the upcoming classic release, but we'll see.

Speaker 1:

I think there's a very good point and I don't think that it's anything bad, to be honest. But again you're going to get people that are annoyed at this because the very first response is no, thank you. This just sounds like a gimmick to boost classic stats. I do not want to be forced to go through every classic to earn removed items in retail. If they want to bring back in retail, they are welcome to, but through retail gameplay I don't get it. I because you can't just unlock these sort of things. And why wouldn't they? Why wouldn't they unlock it and promote world of warcraft, missa pandaria classic? Because it's still world of warcraft. It's like still the exact same game, the different version of it, that's all. And yeah, I don't know, and yeah, it's like okay, it's going to boost classic stats, but it doesn't matter in the end because it's going to be people going to retail to classic to get the item. So it's the exact same amount of people playing world of warcraft, all right, world of warcraft classic world of warcraft. Cat uh, currently, uh, world of warcraft retail. All of them are world of warcraft. All right, world of warcraft. Classic world of warcraft. Kata are currently, uh, world of warcraft retail. All of them are world of warcraft.

Speaker 1:

So, ultimately, you have however many people, if a set number, if you have five people that play wow and three of them play classic, one of them plays retail, one of them them plays classic classic and then you say, oh, there's a retail-like expansion happening and then two of the people from Mists of Pandaria, classic, go to retail. You have three people now playing retail, one playing classic classic, one playing like Mists of Pandaria, but you still have the same amount of people. It doesn't matter, okay, it just doesn't matter. It's ridiculous. Um, I think that it's a great idea.

Speaker 1:

People will always be upset with no matter what is suggested or said, and it's going to be absolutely ridiculous. In my honest opinion, it is going to be absolutely ridiculous and not needed, to be honest, to get this upset about it because, yes, it would be lovely to have and the option is going to be there. If you want to do it, you have about a year while classic is out to level a character to do however many dungeons you need to do, which is probably like 10 within a time limit. You have a year to do that. Okay, but if you don't want to, that's fine, you don't have to.

Speaker 1:

You're not forced to every cosmetic that comes out in the game. You aren't forced to do it or get it. That's why people hated plunder storm, because it's like, oh my god, they put cosmetics behind a pvp sort of um event and it's like, yeah, because if people, if you put player power behind a PvE event, then people aren't upset, but if you put it behind a PvP event, people are going to throw the toys out of their pram. And a good example of this is Horrific Visions. Did you know that in Horrific Visions you get enchants? These enchants are corruptions and they can do damage. They can increase stats.

Speaker 1:

Now, these are nerfed in pvp. But you tell me, is your character better with nerfed enchants or no enchants? Exactly the? The answer is pretty obvious. Right, it's nerfed enchant. So you're forced to do PvP or PvE and these horrific visions if you fully want to optimize your character.

Speaker 1:

And I think the mass has been done. It's about a 1.7% damage increase, which is like nothing to slouch at. Really isn't it really? Really isn't, so yeah't. So yeah, it's gonna be annoying, like, but that's wow. Some things will be annoying to you and it's just the way that the game is. You don't have to do it. You're not forced to do that part of the game. Just enjoy your part of the game, and if something changes about that, that's when you get to say something about it. But if you're upset that cosmetics might be being brought back because of a different wow, then like get over yourself. Really, it is a bit ridiculous.

Speaker 1:

Now the next one is something that I want to discuss and I don't understand this whole idea of it. Wow two will be a successful will be a successful if you follow this steps. Okay, not english, that's fine, so you might need to bear with me because it's translation in my head. Wow, really need some. Wow really need some fresh air. I really hope the last titan will be the bridge for wow 2. Azeroth must be destroyed and reforged.

Speaker 1:

The best leveling experience was in classic, but why simple? We have no information. Wow lost all the sense of mystery. There is an add-on for all. What is the purpose of play a game like this? That, okay. The reason people enjoyed classic. Wow is because they enjoy how slow it is, how simple it is, and because it's nostalgia based. Okay, classic was released in 2004, when pcs could barely run. Okay, people were using potatoes dial up internet. You know, this is a different time. This is two decades ago nearly now. No, it is two decades ago. Oh god, um, like it's a different time. A game like this, of this magnitude didn't happen. Okay, it really didn't happen. Okay, it really didn't happen. Wow was a breakthrough game and that's why people enjoyed it. Okay, it also had three games before it that backed it up with Warcraft Warcraft 2, warcraft 3, these sort of games. So, yeah, it had lore already established and World of Warcraft could build on that, which is really good.

Speaker 1:

Wow 2 must be a new adventure. No add-ons allowed, only a dps heal meter. This will measure, measure, oh um, player skill and results. Imagine you in a big world no information what will you do? Will you start asking other players what to do? Communication this is an mmorpg. You need to interact with others, ask them for their knowledge. You will need to explore. It's an adventure. You don't need to know what a boss drops in the first kill. Nobody knows. All of the elements are what make a game not a game, but a living world full of mysteries to explore. Go wow classic, then question mark, and I'm guessing he um answers that. But I want to address this first. We are heading towards no add-ons. Okay, that's what blizzard are doing.

Speaker 1:

They've stated that in multiple posts not multiple posts, but in like interviews. That's kind of the direction that they want to head. They don't want people to be utilizing weak auras to just play the game for them. They want people to actually look and see what's happening around them, what's on the ground. Don't stand in the swirly thing. Oh my god, that's fire. A weak aura didn't tell me to get out of it, so I must, like, stand in it. You know these sort of things and it's like no, you, you gotta move out of fire it, it does kill you. So they are moving towards this.

Speaker 1:

I don't get the whole point of 21 years now, of world of warcraft um, just being abandoned and like oh, yeah, we're forgetting about world of warcraft. All of the several to no teens of expansions. Now, yeah, that's an old game. We're going to move on to world of war or wow 2 and completely leave this game to die. We're not going to, you know, bank, or we're not just going to keep updating this game. This game's done, you know it's old. We're going to release player housing and then we're going to go on to WoW 2.

Speaker 1:

Ridiculous, so, yes, how does he answer this? Go WoW Classic. Then WoW Classic is bad because there are questy add-ons and graphics are too old. Imagine WoW 2 with no add-ons and nice graphics. Server will just explode in one day. Okay, okay, hear me out on this, hear me out, hear me out on this, hear me out, hear me out. That's called an expansion release.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, because, like you, and the thing is, with wow classic, you, you aren't forced to download questy, you aren't? It's just absolute nonsense. Yeah, blizzard, don't hold a gun to your head and go. You've got to download this add-on right now, otherwise you cannot play classic. And it's like no, they, they don't do that. You can download questy if you want or don't. It's, it's completely up to you. You're the, you're the like idiot who's downloaded questy and then complained about it. Like what? How does that function? It's ridiculous. Um, this is a video game we play for fun.

Speaker 1:

Explore every corner, do a dungeon and get a good item. You didn't even know it existed. Learn boss mechanics, wipe all the same thing. Make a living world great. Eventually information will spread, yes, but it's not the same feeling.

Speaker 1:

Read quests, look at map, ask others, party for a quest, solve mysteries, find items you don't expect, be one in DPS meter, master your class. This is what a WoW player wants and it is not where Blizzard went all with all this expansions. Okay, yeah, so English isn't this person's first language, so it's tough to like dissect what they're trying to say, but essentially it's nonsense. It just is Because you can do this in every version of WoW. Obviously there's different ways of doing it, because you can go in Classic. You can not have it at Questy. You can read them in Quest. You can look at your map. You can dissect whereabouts they might be. Oh, the gorillas lie northeast of here. You should go and collect their fangs and then take them to this guy in a cave and he'll spawn a boss. People will know that one. As a Stranglethorn Veil quest, you need the giblets from the gorillas. You take them, spawn the boss, etc. But it says it in the quest text you can party for quests. Yes, there are group quests and this is both in classic and retail Retail less so.

Speaker 1:

I will say that Solve mysteries. That's what Season of Discovery did at the very first launch of it. They purposefully told you where no runes were and they didn't do betas because they didn't want you to discover where these runes were. So these are the mysteries that people found and this is what they're going to do with classic plus, most likely um, find items you don't expect. They changed items within Season of Discovery as well. Like these things are all in well, but you're asking for a completely separate and second game, ignoring everything like that they've done over 21 years, so you're expecting them to just go.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, classic or WoW 1 was amazing. You know we had 11 expansions, but we just thought, after releasing player housing, cutting down on the add-ons, doing multiple patches, doing a story arc you know that could lead into something else we just thought it was time to end WoW 1 and go on to WoW 2. Like what? That's absolutely bonkers and it's annoyed me. It's annoyed me. I don't know why it's annoyed me. I've got to get off this topic. It's annoyed me. Yeah, this is just absolute nonsense. They will never release a WoW 2. It's ridiculous and his whole points are kind of invalid, because they do get. There are reasons that you can argue against them and there's quite a few, to be honest. But I want to end this episode by going over the PvP stuff again.

Speaker 1:

So for those of you that don't know, pvp is at a very tough spot right now because the rating system is very old tech, we'll say. During the season they inject a small amount of mmr each week. This mmr has been reduced over the course of a few years so you could get a maximum of 3,700 rating. Now it's more like 2,900. So it's about an 800 difference. This means that people who got 2,700 in earlier seasons might go down to 2K, to 2.1, this sort of thing. And it's a bit frustrating because these people are getting better at the game but they feel like they're getting worse because of the mmr. And the reason that people are getting annoyed is because solo shuffle doesn't have this problem. There is a lot of mmr that is injected into it. Same with rated battlegrounds, um.

Speaker 1:

And the main concern is that we don't really get any communication on the PvP side. And this is what we are looking for A lot of communication for the PvP sort of people who want to do right for the PvP community in WoW, but we don't hear a lot. Okay, and this is the upsetting part, because we feel like we do a lot in the PvP section of WoW but we don't get that um, reciprocation or that sort of love back. Uh, as much. Now we get a map every now and again, but again, a map isn't great when a raid or pve is. Get a raid every single patch. Okay, we get, if we're lucky, one or two arena maps and expansion and that's kind of it. Maybe a pvp or battleground map as well, I should say, but again, not really a lot.

Speaker 1:

So we would like some communication on this, whether they're looking to change the mmr system to a completely different system, they're looking to do anything with it, but we just don't get any of that info and that's what's upsetting to a lot of us. So please, if you do love PvP and WoW, please look into it. Please let Blizzard know that you are upset and hopefully we can get some communication on that matter. But that is where I will leave it for this episode. Thank you all very much for listening. Um, do check out all of the socials down below constant stuff happening, as well as etsy, multiple things that are going up constantly on there. But thank you all very much once again and go with valafriend goodbye, thank you.